Sizing a Goat

[passinggas33]

Just have a curiosity about judging length on goats. Is there a way to ballpark horn length based on other characteristics? I spent some time in the alpine wilderness of Washington and found goats and truly had no idea on how to figure out how long their horns were.

An example is like moose . You can often look at the ears and know that tip to tip is 30” wide. So you can then start to extrapolate.

Can you look at goat ears when they are at attention and judge from there?

Here’s an example of the nanny that I saw and couldn’t figure out how old she really was or how long the horns were.

 

[naptho]

Goat's ears are said to generally be about 6 inches long. This nanny looks sizable to me, and is probably pushing 10 yrs old. Here's a good resource from ADFG's website where I first learned this info.

Mountain Goat Identification, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Mountain Goat Identification

www.adfg.alaska.gov

 

[cdes29]

Goat's ears are said to generally be about 6 inches long. This nanny looks sizable to me, and is probably pushing 10 yrs old. Here's a good resource from ADFG's website where I first learned this info.

Mountain Goat Identification, Alaska Department of Fish and Game

Mountain Goat Identification

www.adfg.alaska.gov

This was helpful. Thanks

 

[Coveyleader]

Super hard. I’ve shot three of them and each one was like hmm? What am I looking at.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Length is tough but plausible from a distance. Listen to this explanation from Marvin, he goes over how to judge goat length with a side profile. I've found this to be true on most goats we've shot. Start it from the 1hr 1min mark ... https://journalofmountainhunting.co...coastal-goat-hunting-with-marvin-kwiatkowski/

The goat in my profile picture was 10 6/8 and we knew he broke well over 10" with Marvin's method.

Are you trying to get an exact age or rough estimation? We count annuli sub 200 yards if we wanted some further confirmation after judging via body type and size. If we can count 4-5 rings and still see a decent chunk of Length below we know it's going to be 7-8+



I like to toss most goats into the young, mature, and the old category 9+ and this is done via body type. Roman nose, hair looks matted, big humps on the back, horse head, muscle mass is begining to regress, walking very deliberately etc... It helps to have multiple goats around to compare when comparing body types. When you see an old one you'll know. Best time of the year to do this is the first two weeks of November.

This first one was 9 years, he has big shoulders horse head etc... but look at his rear, he's really losing muscle mass, he just looks worn. We watched him for 5 minutes and decided quickly he was worth the stalk.



As opposed to what I took as a mature billy, he's filled out really well and looks solid. Don't get me wrong, he looks nice but he has some good breeding years ahead. These billy's get the pass from us.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Not to get too off track, but I’ve wondered how Mt. goat tastes? Buddy has a tag and I hope he can fill it I’m excited to know

 

[passinggas33]

Length is tough but plausible from a distance. Listen to this explanation from Marvin, he goes over how to judge goat length with a side profile. I've found this to be true on most goats we've shot. Start it from the 1hr 1min mark ... https://journalofmountainhunting.co...coastal-goat-hunting-with-marvin-kwiatkowski/

The goat in my prfile picture was 10 6/8 and we knew he broke well over 10" with Marvin's method.

Are you trying to get an exact age or rough estimation? We count annuli sub 200 yards if we wanted some further confirmation after judging via body type and size. If we can count 4-5 rings and still see a decent chunk lof ength below we know it's going to be 7-8+

View attachment 947597

I like to toss most goats into the young, mature, and the old category 9+ and this is done via body type. Roman nose, hair looks matted, big humps on the back, horse head, muscle mass is begining to regress, walking very deliberately etc... It helps to have multiple goats around to compare when comparing body types. When you see an old one you'll know. Best time of the year to do this is the first two weeks of November.

This first one was 9 years, he has big shoulders horse head etc... but look at his rear, he's really losing muscle mass, he just looks worn. We watched him for 5 minutes and decided quickly he was worth the stalk.

View attachment 947598

As opposed to what I took as a mature billy, he's filled out really well and looks solid. Don't get me wrong, he looks nice but he has some good breeding years ahead. These billy's get the pass from us.

View attachment 947599

This is great information. I don’t have a tag (though I continually try for one), but seeing these up close and personal made me have more interest in learning to how to better judge horn length and extrapolate that out to guesstimate on age. It’s as much of a curiosity as anything. I’ll listen to this information so I can learn. Appreciate you sharing your knowledge.

 

[StopMakingSense]

That podcast I reference is an amazing wealth of knowledge from two greats in BC that have seen a lot of goats.

 

[StopMakingSense]

Not to get too off track, but I’ve wondered how Mt. goat tastes? Buddy has a tag and I hope he can fill it I’m excited to know

Ha, simply put, goaty. If you ever had goat cheese and compared it to a regular cheddar it has a certain goatiness tang to it, that’s it.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Length is tough but plausible from a distance. Listen to this explanation from Marvin, he goes over how to judge goat length with a side profile. I've found this to be true on most goats we've shot. Start it from the 1hr 1min mark ... https://journalofmountainhunting.co...coastal-goat-hunting-with-marvin-kwiatkowski/

The goat in my profile picture was 10 6/8 and we knew he broke well over 10" with Marvin's method.

Are you trying to get an exact age or rough estimation? We count annuli sub 200 yards if we wanted some further confirmation after judging via body type and size. If we can count 4-5 rings and still see a decent chunk of Length below we know it's going to be 7-8+

View attachment 947597

I like to toss most goats into the young, mature, and the old category 9+ and this is done via body type. Roman nose, hair looks matted, big humps on the back, horse head, muscle mass is begining to regress, walking very deliberately etc... It helps to have multiple goats around to compare when comparing body types. When you see an old one you'll know. Best time of the year to do this is the first two weeks of November.

This first one was 9 years, he has big shoulders horse head etc... but look at his rear, he's really losing muscle mass, he just looks worn. We watched him for 5 minutes and decided quickly he was worth the stalk.

View attachment 947598

As opposed to what I took as a mature billy, he's filled out really well and looks solid. Don't get me wrong, he looks nice but he has some good breeding years ahead. These billy's get the pass from us.

View attachment 947599

So for the body on a "old" billy, the front is going to look noticeably larger than the rear, like a hyena or buffalo, whereas a "mature" billy will still have that look a bit, but not as pronounced?

 

[StopMakingSense]

Yes, exactly

Their fat reserves along with muscle composition is on the down slope and it causes the skeletal system to be more pronounced throughout.

 

[naneumranch]

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[diamond10x]

I use edge of nose to front of eye as 8", edge of nose to back of eye 9" and edge of nose past eye is 9"+.
This has worked for me pretty good, especially later in the season.

This past August I hunted goats for the first time in early season and for some reason had a difficult time judging horn length. My dad was on a billy both my brother and I were pretty confident he was around the 10" mark and ended up only being a smidge over 9", but it could have just been the excitement of getting my dad his first goat.

 

[StopMakingSense]

That photo from True Hunts is not good

@diamond10x has the right thoughts, here's the evidence, this goat was 9 years 8 7/8 horns

 

[naneumranch]

Looking at that pic it looks pretty accurate to me eye to nostril is 8 1/2 on your pic.


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[Jimss]

I used to screw up so bad by using body measurements as reference that I totally quit using them. This is especially true with mtn goats and antelope. Goats come in so many different shapes and sizes that it’s really easy to screw up. With that said, there are experts such as the Grimmetts with pronghorn that are extremely good at this.

A prime example is a giant bodied Billie’s horns likely look dinky compared to his giant body, mature mule-like nose, etc. A young Billie’s horns may appear longer and more massive than they actually are because he has a shorter nose, smaller ears, etc.

The more time you spend around goats the easier it is to tell Nannie’s from Billie’s and a medium sized Billy from an older Billy.

A dollar bill is 6”. One and 1/2 dollar bills equals 9”. I try to get in as close as possible and look through a spotting scope at close range (50 to 150 yards when possible). At that range you can count rings.

Another thing I do is get quality photos and video that I can look in detail at home on a computer or big screen tv.

 

[Decker9]

I used to screw up so bad by using body measurements as reference that I totally quit using them. This is especially true with mtn goats and antelope. Goats come in so many different shapes and sizes that it’s really easy to screw up. With that said, there are experts such as the Grimmetts with pronghorn that are extremely good at this.

A prime example is a giant bodied Billie’s horns likely look dinky compared to his giant body, mature mule-like nose, etc. A young Billie’s horns may appear longer and more massive than they actually are because he has a shorter nose, smaller ears, etc.

The more time you spend around goats the easier it is to tell Nannie’s from Billie’s and a medium sized Billy from an older Billy.

A dollar bill is 6”. One and 1/2 dollar bills equals 9”. I try to get in as close as possible and look through a spotting scope at close range (50 to 150 yards when possible). At that range you can count rings.

Another thing I do is get quality photos and video that I can look in detail at home on a computer or big screen tv.

My experience as well. There can be a good difference between mature and not, and coastal or inland (BC).

Iv piled a lot of lumber, I judge by comparing to 2x8 or 2x10’s. Haven’t found one yet to compare to 2x12’s lol.

 

[johnnycake]

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This is not even close to reliable. Particularly because head size grows significantly on goats after age 4, but their horns generally stay proportional looking from age 2-3 onward. The face length on a 2-3 yr old billy is going to be 2-3" shorter on average than that same length on a +9 yr old billy. So if you're looking at a solo goat and see the horns are about the length of the eye to the tip of the nose, without knowing how to read the whole body picture you might be looking at a 7-8" young goat or a 9-10" hoss. My informal translation of goats to whitetails is that that is the difference between a 6pt 90" basket buck and a +160" 10pt (or a branch antler raghorn vs a 340" bull elk). On deer/elk it is just way easier to see it and recognize it.

That photo from True Hunts is not good

@diamond10x has the right thoughts, here's the evidence, this goat was 9 years 8 7/8 horns

View attachment 950948

Looking at that pic it looks pretty accurate to me eye to nostril is 8 1/2 on your pic.


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Look at his pic again, and compare it to the True Hunt one. Even if we say the True Hunt one goes from the back of the eyeball to the interior edge of the nostril to be 9" (which I think the pic actually uses the bottom lid at the back of the iris "eyeball", not the corner of the lids), his pic has that measurement at 8" dead on. In goat world, 1" difference is enormous.

I use edge of nose to front of eye as 8", edge of nose to back of eye 9" and edge of nose past eye is 9"+.
This has worked for me pretty good, especially later in the season.

This past August I hunted goats for the first time in early season and for some reason had a difficult time judging horn length. My dad was on a billy both my brother and I were pretty confident he was around the 10" mark and ended up only being a smidge over 9", but it could have just been the excitement of getting my dad his first goat.

Judging goat horns based on face length without using the body/whole picture to know it's a mature goat is playing goat roulette.

 

[diamond10x]

Judging goat horns based on face length without using the body/whole picture to know it's a mature goat is playing goat roulette.

I thought that would be a given but thanks for pointing that out.

My point I was making about the early season hunting is that it deceptively made horns look longer than what they were since the before this year I've only hunted goats end of September to mid November. Not sure if it was due to length of hair or less swelling of the glands. Was definitely not because of looking at immature animals.

 

[Jimss]

Johnnycake is right on with his post above. If you want to screw up use mtn goat body measurements as reference.

Here in Colorado our goats were introduced from different regions (Alaska, South Dakota, British Columbia). Some mature billies that were introduced from different areas have small bodies even at 5+ years of age. These smaller bodied mature billies have the same number of rings as the same age goat introduced from a different region.