Show your Tikka ten round groups

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

I agree with your sentiment in general but wanted to point out some things. When you get to distance (5-600 yards+) there is a BIG difference between being able to shoot a 1 MOA group and being able to hit a 1 MOA target. Lots of people punch sub MOA groups into paper at 100 yards all the time and think that means they will hit a MOA target at distance but it doesn't. Spin drift, wind, velocity variance, bc variance, differences in recoil management shot to shot, will all start to cause misses.

Some things that cause a group to be 1 MOA vs 0.5 MOA at 100 could very well cause that group to be larger than 1 MOA as distances extend.

Agree 100%. Folks should know what their rifle does throughout their expected maximum hunting/shooting distances. Things are not always linear.

 

[wind gypsy]

Sorry for the late delay. Please correct me if I am mistaken.

If the vitals of an elk are 12-15", then that is the diameter. We'd have to divide that by 2 to get the radius. If the gun shoots 1 MOA then the maximum shot distance would be 600-750 yards as the bullet would go somewhere within that radius (6-7.5"). Even this assumes that the shooter aims for the exact center of the vitals. Any deviation from that aim point could mean a miss or bad shot (ex: gun shot).

Group size more appropriately relates to diameter - max dimension between two furthest apart impacts.

 

[wind gypsy]

I don't mean this to be negative towards tikkas or anyone's shooting, but the majority of 10 round groups in this thread do not match the sentiment for tikka accuracy.

 

[HighUintas]

I finally have a couple of ten round groups to put up again. Or a 10 and a 15.

Cartridge is:
Starline virgin brass
Speer hot cor 180gr
Cci200
H4350 58.8gr
BtO 2.690

With the larger group of 10 rounds I was using a sand bags for a rear rest. For the better group 15 rounds I was using my fist with a towel on top of it as my rear rest. My crosshairs certainly had way more float with the fist rest, so I'm not sure why it's so much better. Maybe I'm not getting my rear sand bag rest placed as consistently as I thought? Anyway, I'll practice with this load in the field next time I take my kids out to practice.

 

[HighUintas]

Here is my kids' new Tikka with swfa and a ten round group from one of them. I'm starting their brainwashing!

 

[kbrown5897]

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30 rounds, 100 yards. 77gr TMK.
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NICe work

 

[BjornF16]

Range day with .223 and 7mm-08 (new load). Adding scope level to 7-08 helped with horizontal stringing...need to get one for .223.

 

[HighUintas]

Range day with .223 and 7mm-08 (new load). Adding scope level to 7-08 helped with horizontal stringing...need to get one for .223.

Very good! How much did it tighten your horizontal spread with the level?

I need to pay more attention to my leveling

 

[BjornF16]

Very good! How much did it tighten your horizontal spread with the level?

I need to pay more attention to my leveling

You can see the difference in the pics between 223 and 7mm-08...at 100 yds, I'm typically seeing 1.25-1.75" horizontal without the level (sometimes more). With the level, I've brought the 7mm--08 inside an inch horizontally.

 

[BjornF16]

The other piece of the puzzle is paying attention to entire firing sequence. Whereas before the gun was really jumping around (incorrect positioning, hold, etc), now I'm paying more attention to my hold. Gun was level before shot, remains level after the shot.

Yes, you are correct that a lot of cant would be required to generate that error but that is merely the "static" view and not the "dynamic" view.

In summary: Sloppy setup and mechanics previously; improved setup and mechanics now.

 

[HighUintas]

For reference, a 143 ELD-X with a MV of 2,720 fps and a sight height of 2-inches needs to have a cant differential of 10 degrees to see a horizontal differential error of 0.75" at 100 yards......that's a boat load.

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Below is a picture showing a vertical line and then a 5-degree cant on either side of the vertical line. You'd have to bounce between either -5 degree to the +5 degree cant to add 0.75" to the horizontal spread of the group.

View attachment 233135

You should be able to tell that you are within about 1-degree without a level or device. The horizontal differential from a +1 to -1 degree cant for the above example at 100 yards would be 0.154" (i.e. 0.147 MOA). To gain better resolution, you'd really need a Send-it level (or similar).

What do you do for work? I'm jealous... I've got a physics degree and haven't used that knowledge for 10 years or so. I'm sadly forgetting a lot of it

 

[HighUintas]

I solve problems that people don’t know they have in ways they can't understand

 

[Apollo117]

I solve problems that people don’t know they have in ways they can't understand

I work in IT. I'm stealing this.

 

[HighUintas]

Did some shooting yesterday and today. First target with the orange is a group of 6 and 9. I adjusted my scope before the 2nd group to zero for 200yds. I wasn't shooting all that well. A little flinchy.

Second target is load development for new powder and bullets. Trigger control was better today than yesterday. No idea what happened on that first shot in the center bull. Could have been the case that had gobs of case lube inside the neck.

 

[BuckSnort]

T3X Superlite 6.5 CM tall target test last year

 

[HighUintas]

Did some shooting yesterday and today. First target with the orange is a group of 6 and 9. I adjusted my scope before the 2nd group to zero for 200yds. I wasn't shooting all that well. A little flinchy.

Second target is load development for new powder and bullets. Trigger control was better today than yesterday. No idea what happened on that first shot in the center bull. Could have been the case that had gobs of case lube inside the neck.

Ugh, I suck.... Either at shooting or reloading.

Here's a follow-up on the load development I posted in the quote.

 

[wakedye]

Group size more appropriately relates to diameter - max dimension between two furthest apart impacts.

While it's true that when people are measuring group size, most are measuring a max dimension between their impacts, AZ Hunter points out something that is important. Just because a gun/shooter can shoot a 1 MOA group (measuring max distance between impacts) doesn't mean the gun/shooter can hit a 1 MOA target. The measurement of a group in this manner doesn't directly relate it to the point of aim. If people were to measure everything from the point of aim then you would see something more similar to what AZ is saying as our point of impacts are never exactly centered on our POA

 

[DJL2]

I’m sure some of this has been posted previously. However, to drop some references in one stop shopping style for group sizes and sample sizes -

http://www.bealeinnovations.com/stats-3shotgroup.pdf

https://precisionrifleblog.com/2020/12/12/measuring-group-size-statistics-for-shooters/

How Much Does Group Size Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. We think everything is important...

precisionrifleblog.com

That’s an 11 shot group, 60 grains to 65 grains of RE23, with Matrix 168 VLD. First six are in the middle, 7-9 on the right, 10-11 on the left. Initially disciplined about keeping it cool... shot her hot as time ran down. Seemed like a little plateau to play with @2910 FPS or so (64-64.5 grains, ADG brass)

 

[wind gypsy]

How Much Does Group Size Matter?

As long-range shooters, we tend to obsess over every little detail. We think everything is important...

precisionrifleblog.com

This is a fantastic read and should be a sticky on precision shooting and reloading forums. Some good excerpts:

The argument is if you truly have a 1/2 MOA rifle at 1000 yards, and it’s a shoulder-fired, hunting-type, lightweight field rifle and it shoots 1/2 MOA at 1000. If it does, then take it to the heavy Benchrest Nationals because you’re probably going to win. You know?! Look at the average group size of those rifles. I’m sorry, I don’t believe you. - Jayden Quinlan, ballistician at Hornady,

“Some shooters may have two or three 3-shot groups to prove the load is really accurate. It really takes more shooting than that to make a judgment on a load’s accuracy potential. Three shots forming a tight cluster is nice to look at, but it is little more than an accident. Shooting three-shot groups to see how everything is working is essentially a waste of time and components. … Ten shots are a more reliable indicator when it comes to predicting what a load is likely to do in the future.” – Rick Jamison in an article published in Precision Reloading

“Institutions and organizations that buy enormous amounts of ammunition and weapons are far more interested in facts than sales hype and propaganda and most of them demand that accuracy/precision testing be conducted using 10-shot groups. This includes the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Crane Naval Surface Warfare Center, the US Army Marksmanship Unit, and the US military’s acceptance testing of both 5.56mm ammunition and weapons. On the other hand, businesses that use 3-shot groups for making their accuracy claims are usually trying to sell something.” “Ten shots are a more reliable indicator when it comes to predicting what a load is likely to do in the future. The problem with 10-shot groups is that when you report them, everyone thinks you aren’t shooting very well or that the ammunition is not good because the group sizes are so much larger than three or five-shot groups.”

 

[Formidilosus]

Almost like some people have been saying that...