Show Off Your Tikka T3/T3X Groups

[Formidilosus]

“Snip”

phew,,,,,best I got for you, if this don’t help, you will have to go over to snipers hide and research for yourself

The answer is the barrel does not know the difference. A properly stress relieved barrel will group within the true cone of fire until way, way more than 10 rounds. The reason that more shots make the group bigger, is because the groups will keep getting bigger the more shits are in it until the cone is established and then it stabilizes. It has nothing to do with lightweight barrels and heat.

 

[Woodrow F Call]

NICE !,

10 shot groups and skinny hunting barrels on lightweight guns don't go too good together

Seems to work fine here. 10 shots at almost 3/4 inch, cold to hot @100 yards. SWFA 6X, Sportsmatch Rings, basically what Formidilosus recommends to everyone.

ELDx 147g over on my loads.

 

[Bubblehide]

Ok I got you now, see if this helps,,
Each round equals more friction, and explosion
More friction and explosion equal more heat
More heat equals more movement of atoms
More atom movement equals expansion, thermal expansion in this case
When the metal expands, it changes shape
When it changes shape, accuracy is effected
When accuracy is effected, group size changes

regardless of barrel dimensions, this is applicable, if all metallurgical properties are the same ( near impossible) , a thicker barrel will react slower than a thin barrel because it takes longer to heat up, it “reacts” slower

every barrel has its own metallurgical personality, and shot #4 maybe improve the group size , but in a skinny barrel, usually not

Every barrel absorbs heat between shots 3 and 4, this may help some barrels, but in general, the slimmer a barrel, the quicker it heats up, one shot at a time

phew,,,,,best I got for you, if this don’t help, you will have to go over to snipers hide and research for yourself

That makes as much sense as trying to put a square rock in a round hole. I think you have a whole lot more research to do. Don't get me wrong, There is some truth to what you are saying, despite saying some things completely wrong (as if my barrel changes shape from a long cylinder to a square). But it is clear that you are trying to regurgitate what you have read elsewhere, but don't fully understand.

I know, I can't just say that without backing it up. So here is a cursory effort as I have more important things to attend to at the moment.

"Each round equals more friction, and explosion"
My guess is that you mean that as a bullet travels down the barrel and the bullet engages the riffling, there is friction between the bullet and barrel. The friction creates heat. A portion of the heat is transferred to the barrel, and continued shots without allowing the barrel to cool raised the transferred heat, thus increasing the temperature of the barrel. As metal is heated (in this case the barrel) it expands (but how much heat does that actually take), in the barrel's case, potentially making the barrel inside diameter slightly larger. The difference could be insignificant or significant, either making the rifle less or more accurate based on individual rifle differences, bullet selection...

":Explosion" = a violent or destructive shattering of... Explosion does not equate to the controlled rapid expansion of gas created as the powder in the case is exposed to a spark or flame created from the firing pin striking the primer of the cartridge. I think what you are getting at here is that the burning of powder that creates the rapid controlled expansion of gasses is a heat producing event which in turn transfers heat to the barrel.

In short, the point you appear to be missing is that this process and it's affects are exactly the same, proportional to the volume and density of the barrel given the same metal type and quality and density.

So to sum this up, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

However, knowing Form (@Formidilosus), I will not be surprised if he provides examples from his experiences comparing and contrasting barrels with literally THOUSANDS of rounds through each.

 

[Antares]

The answer is the barrel does not know the difference. A properly stress relieved barrel will group within the true cone of fire until way, way more than 10 rounds. The reason that more shots make the group bigger, is because the groups will keep getting bigger the more shits are in it until the cone is established and then it stabilizes. It has nothing to do with lightweight barrels and heat.

This is funny. It makes sense regardless of whether it’s “shits” or “shots”. Made me giggle.

 

[BAKPAKR]

Here are six 3 shot groups with 139 gr Scenars out of my T3X SL in 6.5 CM. The top three were with H4350 and the bottom three (shot first, in case that makes a difference) were with RL26. On each row, the powder charge for the rounds used for each group L to R was increased by 0.5 gr. My 6.5 seems to shoot better than my daughter’s 223 (also a T3X SL).

 

[ETtikka]

The answer is the barrel does not know the difference. A properly stress relieved barrel will group within the true cone of fire until way, way more than 10 rounds. The reason that more shots make the group bigger, is because the groups will keep getting bigger the more shits are in it until the cone is established and then it stabilizes. It has nothing to do with lightweight barrels and heat.

I understand now, 100 shot group should be the same as a 3 shot group, heat has no effect between any two given shot numbers , so if you add up the difference between all the shots 1-100, it still equals zero difference, I got it now

 

[ETtikka]

That makes as much sense as trying to put a square rock in a round hole. I think you have a whole lot more research to do. Don't get me wrong, There is some truth to what you are saying, despite saying some things completely wrong (as if my barrel changes shape from a long cylinder to a square). But it is clear that you are trying to regurgitate what you have read elsewhere, but don't fully understand.

I know, I can't just say that without backing it up. So here is a cursory effort as I have more important things to attend to at the moment.

"Each round equals more friction, and explosion"
My guess is that you mean that as a bullet travels down the barrel and the bullet engages the riffling, there is friction between the bullet and barrel. The friction creates heat. A portion of the heat is transferred to the barrel, and continued shots without allowing the barrel to cool raised the transferred heat, thus increasing the temperature of the barrel. As metal is heated (in this case the barrel) it expands (but how much heat does that actually take), in the barrel's case, potentially making the barrel inside diameter slightly larger. The difference could be insignificant or significant, either making the rifle less or more accurate based on individual rifle differences, bullet selection...

":Explosion" = a violent or destructive shattering of... Explosion does not equate to the controlled rapid expansion of gas created as the powder in the case is exposed to a spark or flame created from the firing pin striking the primer of the cartridge. I think what you are getting at here is that the burning of powder that creates the rapid controlled expansion of gasses is a heat producing event which in turn transfers heat to the barrel.

In short, the point you appear to be missing is that this process and it's affects are exactly the same, proportional to the volume and density of the barrel given the same metal type and quality and density.

So to sum this up, THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE.

However, knowing Form (@Formidilosus), I will not be surprised if he provides examples from his experiences comparing and contrasting barrels with literally THOUSANDS of rounds through each.

I was just trying to explain it in as basic terms as possible, I didn’t realize it was a set up , lol

 

[Formidilosus]

I understand now, 100 shot group should be the same as a 3 shot group, heat has no effect between any two given shot numbers , so if you add up the difference between all the shots 1-100, it still equals zero difference, I got it now

No, a 100 shot group won’t be the same size as a 3 shot “group”. However- every one of your 3 shots groups will be inside the 100 round group….

 

[Bubblehide]

I was just trying to explain it in as basic terms as possible, I didn’t realize it was a set up , lol

Sometimes it pays to know the players. Yet it was not exactly a set-up unless you consider you played into setting yourself up. There are all different kinds of knowledge level people on this this forum, and an extreme depth of knowledge on this forum on pretty much any subject matter (Rokslide is such an incredible forum). You literally could ask pretty much any question here and get some seriously professional opinions.

I know I am late, but welcome to Rokslide!!!!!!

 

[Motown]

Here are six 3 shot groups with 139 gr Scenars out of my T3X SL in 6.5 CM. The top three were with H4350 and the bottom three (shot first, in case that makes a difference) were with RL26. On each row, the powder charge for the rounds used for each group L to R was increased by 0.5 gr. My 6.5 seems to shoot better than my daughter’s 223 (also a T3X SL).

View attachment 322787

RL26 seems to be an awesome powder for the Creed. How hot are you pushing those 139’s? I have 500 of them sitting here that I am going to play with more this winter and a bunch of RL26 left.

 

[Elkhunter777]

600yds tikka t3 6.6x55 Swedish mauser. hormady 143 ELDX H4350 2900fps hell canyon carbon barrel alterations arms carbon stock

 

[HighUintas]

Sometimes it pays to know the players. Yet it was not exactly a set-up unless you consider you played into setting yourself up. There are all different kinds of knowledge level people on this this forum, and an extreme depth of knowledge on this forum on pretty much any subject matter (Rokslide is such an incredible forum). You literally could ask pretty much any question here and get some seriously professional opinions.

I know I am late, but welcome to Rokslide!!!!!!

You actually know @Formidilosus ?

 

[Jlee91w]

Tikka roughtech 300wsm, most accurate rifle that I have owned. Definitely heavier than my 300wm superlite but with groups this good, I can’t complain. Jared

 

[seand]

I understand now, 100 shot group should be the same as a 3 shot group, heat has no effect between any two given shot numbers , so if you add up the difference between all the shots 1-100, it still equals zero difference, I got it now

the point is- 3 shot groups don’t tell you much of anything. Shoot ten and see if the group size increases. Of course it does , since your three shots are inside of the real group, sometimes they are near the center, sometimes not. Try it, see what happens. Probably shoots great, it’s a tikka. A 1.5 “ 10 shot group is really good. But it’s not really valid to say a rifle shoots MOA based on a 3 shot group.

 

[ETtikka]

the point is- 3 shot groups don’t tell you much of anything. Shoot ten and see if the group size increases. Of course it does , since your three shots are inside of the real group, sometimes they are near the center, sometimes not. Try it, see what happens. Probably shoots great, it’s a tikka. A 1.5 “ 10 shot group is really good. But it’s not really valid to say a rifle shoots MOA based on a 3 shot group.

Agreed, my only point was each shot adds heat, barrel mass/surface area are factors on how quickly that heat affects a barrel, am I off base?

 

[BAKPAKR]

RL26 seems to be an awesome powder for the Creed. How hot are you pushing those 139’s? I have 500 of them sitting here that I am going to play with more this winter and a bunch of RL26 left.

The last load with the RL26 (bottom right) was 2789, 2789, 2783. I stocked up on Scenars myself after that.

 

[cornfed]

It does not.


You stated-


And I am asking why, and how? If your statement is correct, than you should be able to explain how the barrel “reacts” differently between rounds three and four, or between rounds 3 and ten, and what that means to group size.

What's your problem? Your talking about shooting 10 shot groups with a light sporter bbl. Grow up, your not as bright as you think you are. These guns shoot outstanding groups for a lightweight production hunting rifle. I've owned 5 Tikka's, and i've shot 1/4" 3 shot groups or better with all of them.

 

[ETtikka]

What's your problem? Your talking about shooting 10 shot groups with a light sporter bbl. Grow up, your not as bright as you think you are. These guns shoot outstanding groups for a lightweight production hunting rifle. I've owned 5 Tikka's, and i've shot 1/4" 3 shot groups or better with all of them.

I have had similar results , not quite that good, just got a t1x , can’t wait to try out

 

[Sandstrom]

For all the people that are against 10 shot groups for the heat reason, let’s simply remove the factor of heating the barrel completely. It is very easy. Take one shot a day at the same target for ten days. Or shoot a three shot group three different days at the same target (might have to shoot 4 one day or 1 on the 4th day).
Problem solved
Ryan

 

[billoo349]

The answer is the barrel does not know the difference. A properly stress relieved barrel will group within the true cone of fire until way, way more than 10 rounds. The reason that more shots make the group bigger, is because the groups will keep getting bigger the more shits are in it until the cone is established and then it stabilizes. It has nothing to do with lightweight barrels and heat.

Then why is it stressed to let the barrel cool between shots, is that just a misconception? Or is that just for the longevity of the barrel? Or is it common for the barrel of a factory rifle to not be properly stress relieved? And does the cartridge sitting in a heated chamber make any difference in this?

Sent from my motorola one 5G UW ace using Tapatalk