Short range optic for heavy woods whitetail

[Old-Cat]

So you're saying you can see with a 24mm objective in the wooded mountains an hour after sunset on a moonless evening???

No sir. ?

However, I am saying I can see just fine.


Edit. Under those circumstances, you couldn’t see with your naked eyes. Why in the world would you wanna shoot something you can’t see with a naked eye? Maybe I’m missing something?

 

[Macintosh]

A good low light optic you’ll see more thru the optic than you can with your naked eyes. Scopes like the S&B mentioned above are designed specifically for night hunting in parts of europe where that is legal. In the US, if you are sitting waiting for a deer to come by, it can add a valuable couple minutes when you are most likely to see game moving. So yes, there is a legit use case for it.
That said, I agree that for 30min before/after, even in dark woods I have not had a problem with my 28mm objective—in part because its not seeing the deer thats the bottleneck for me, its seeing the brush in between me and the deer. Hunting past the time when you can see with a naked eye is fine in the open or very open woods, its quite another thing and ime not really as viable as it sounds if its really thick. Just gotta pick your priorities based on how and where you hunt. For me that last 3 minutes that my 42mm S&B gives me over my 1-6 is really 99% on paper only, its just not as important as other qualities given where and how I hunt. Diff story for other folks obviously.

 

[KenLee]

No sir. ?

However, I am saying I can see just fine.


Edit. Under those circumstances, you couldn’t see with your naked eyes. Why in the world would you wanna shoot something you can’t see with a naked eye? Maybe I’m missing something?

Because it's legal and I can see em with my 8x42 NL and Leica Magnus I.
I've been killing deer that I couldn't see with my naked eyes since 1979 with a 3-9x32 Armsport scope.

 

[KenLee]

A good low light optic you’ll see more thru the optic than you can with your naked eyes. Scopes like the S&B mentioned above are designed specifically for night hunting in parts of europe where that is legal. In the US, if you are sitting waiting for a deer to come by, it can add a valuable couple minutes when you are most likely to see game moving. So yes, there is a legit use case for it.
That said, I agree that for 30min before/after, even in dark woods I have not had a problem with my 28mm objective—in part because its not seeing the deer thats the bottleneck for me, its seeing the brush in between me and the deer. Hunting past the time when you can see with a naked eye is fine in the open or very open woods, its quite another thing and ime not really as viable as it sounds if its really thick. Just gotta pick your priorities based on how and where you hunt. For me that last 3 minutes that my 42mm S&B gives me over my 1-6 is really 99% on paper only, its just not as important as other qualities given where and how I hunt. Diff story for other folks obviously.

"Couple minutes"?
I kill deer 30-40 minutes after hunting buddies are back at the skinning shed empty handed.

 

[KenLee]

This seems a tough topic to align on, as there are multiple hunters with experience with short-range woods hunting that are providing conflicting recommendations. Theres a few posts in this thread that I strongly disagree with for example, but my guess is they are still correct for that person and where/how they hunt. In other words, two different things can both be right at the same time, and also not all “close range woods hunting” is the same, ie I get the sense there’s both stand (or sit) hunters and foot hunters posting in the same thread, without specifying how theyre hunting. No shocker there I guess, as we’re talking about +\- half of the entire continent, it would be weird if we all had the same experiences and needs.

Those are the guys back at camp 40 minutes before I kill a good buck.

 

[KenLee]

It’s fascinatingly obtuse. We’re talking fast acquisition, about 100yds or less, -/+30min sunrise & sunset. And OP is now “heavily considering” a 56mm objective scope. God bless America.

I see you have never actually hunted to 30 minutes past sunset on a rainy and/or moonless night in dense woods.

 

[KenLee]

A good low light optic you’ll see more thru the optic than you can with your naked eyes. Scopes like the S&B mentioned above are designed specifically for night hunting in parts of europe where that is legal. In the US, if you are sitting waiting for a deer to come by, it can add a valuable couple minutes when you are most likely to see game moving. So yes, there is a legit use case for it.
That said, I agree that for 30min before/after, even in dark woods I have not had a problem with my 28mm objective—in part because its not seeing the deer thats the bottleneck for me, its seeing the brush in between me and the deer. Hunting past the time when you can see with a naked eye is fine in the open or very open woods, its quite another thing and ime not really as viable as it sounds if its really thick. Just gotta pick your priorities based on how and where you hunt. For me that last 3 minutes that my 42mm S&B gives me over my 1-6 is really 99% on paper only, its just not as important as other qualities given where and how I hunt. Diff story for other folks obviously.

Delusional that you get 30 minutes past sunset in dense woods on a rainy/moonless night with a 28mm scope.

 

[Macintosh]

Delusional that you get 30 minutes past sunset in dense woods on a rainy/moonless night with a 28mm scope.

@KenLee “delusional”? Since you obviously know where and how I hunt, know my eyes better than I do, and know what I should be seeing, maybe PM me a few onx pins of where I hunt? Having another set of eyes on things can shed new light, ya know?

Your hunting hours are not my hunting hours. Your eyes are not my eyes. Your terrain is not my terrain. Your style of hunting is not mine. Your priorities are not mine. Have you considered that perhaps no single persons experiences are universal?

For me that last 3 minutes that my 42mm S&B gives me over my 1-6 is really 99% on paper only, its just not as important as other qualities given where and how I hunt. Diff story for other folks obviously

If you are the “other folks”, thats fine. The most extreme situation of low light is not
my priority. Im fine on this scope having 30min past legal in dark woods most of the time, as opposed to under the darkest conditions I see maybe once or twice a season—because in this use other priorities are more important to me. Again, if your priorities are different, you do you. But yes, more often than not my 28mm scope sees me to the end of legal light in the woods.

 

[KenLee]

@KenLee “delusional”? Since you obviously know where and how I hunt, know my eyes better than I do, and know what I should be seeing, maybe PM me a few onx pins of where I hunt? Having another set of eyes on things can shed new light, ya know?

Your hunting hours are not my hunting hours. Your eyes are not my eyes. Your terrain is not my terrain. Your style of hunting is not mine. Your priorities are not mine. Have you considered that perhaps no single persons experiences are universal?



If you are the “other folks”, thats fine. The most extreme situation of low light is not
my priority. Im fine on this scope having 30min past legal in dark woods most of the time, as opposed to under the darkest conditions I see maybe once or twice a season—because in this use other priorities are more important to me. Again, if your priorities are different, you do you. But yes, more often than not my 28mm scope sees me to the end of legal light in the woods.

I will say that I wish I had your eyes, as it would have saved me some $ over the years. Apparently my neighbors have eyes similar to mine , as thy are in their trucks, home or the clubhouse 30-40 minutes before I kill deer because their $200-500 scopes have crapped out.

 

[plebe]

I see you have never actually hunted to 30 minutes past sunset on a rainy and/or moonless night in dense woods.

So it’s a rainy and moonless night and there’s a deer I want to shoot 100yds away and I know it’s there how?

 

[plebe]

I will say that I wish I had your eyes, as it would have saved me some $ over the years. Apparently my neighbors have eyes similar to mine , as thy are in their trucks, home or the clubhouse 30-40 minutes before I kill deer because their $200-500 scopes have crapped out.

 

[Kenny Hart]

View attachment 853575
View attachment 853576

Best comment

But seriously, buddies aren't back at the truck 30 mins before legal shooting because they don't have a S&B, its because they are scared of the dark. And that's not being sarcastic.

I feel like this parallels the arrow weight discussion, where you have the passionate guys who shoot the lightest, fastest arrow possible because "you've obviously never had to make a quick shot at a moving animal without ranging," and the guys who have moved the pendulum to the complete opposite end with the mindset that if you don't shoot 650gr logs, then "you obviously haven't shot enough animals to see how your arrows will bounce right off."

Then you have all the people in the middle who shoot a 42mm...er, I mean an adequate-weight, pretty fast arrow, and are like, "ya, mine pretty much covers me for any situation I have/will find myself in."

 

[Macintosh]

@Kenny Hart no, I dont think this is addressing one topic with either of two extremes. I think there is actually a pretty wide variety of different hunting styles and terrain, conditions that affects peoples actual needs. If I rifle hunted from a stationary position and waited for a deer on a bed-to-feed pattern to walk by, my odds of seeing any deer increase exponentially as dusk approaches. In that case I might make the same choices as Ken Lee. I am NOT saying my little Lpvo has the same light gathering as his 56mm scope designed for hunting in full dark—that would be ridiculous, there IS a difference. But if a 28 or 32 mm obj gets me to legal light on most days, that’s all I need and is the end of the conversation for me, b/c past that further performance has zero benefit FOR ME, and I start prioritizing other things. Ken Lee’s most important 30 minutes are literally my least important 30 minutes, so to me it makes perfect sense that we have different criteria that we are each happy to compromise on, and where we arent. Let it be known that I also have a different rifle with a bigger objective that I can use if Im planning to sit for an evening in particularly dark conditions, etc—its just not what I personally consider a “short range optic for heavy woods whitetail”.

The ultimate point is that there are a lot of different scopes that will get a hunter to legal shooting light, so given that different hunters will have different OTHER priorities, its entirely normal to have multiple viable options (its REALLY easy to decisively beat the low light performance of a diamondback tactical scope, even with a small objective), but choose differently based on what other criteria are on your list. The only reason Im arguing the point is that there are a lot of absolute statements in this thread (statements about light gathering, amount of time for shots, FOV benefits, etc) presented as fact, that are simply not universally true. Im not at all suggesting my choices should necessarily be your choices, Im just advocating for a somewhat objective view of what the OP actually prioritizes and why (which was never really stated other than wanting both wide fov and light gathering, without any other qualification), and then balancing what will best accomplish the combination of priorities.

 

[KenLee]

So it’s a rainy and moonless night and there’s a deer I want to shoot 100yds away and I know it’s there how?

Do you need to borrow some binoculars?

 

[KenLee]

View attachment 853575
View attachment 853576

Hold that Q-Beam still

 

[WJS23]

I have been using a trijicon acupoint 1-6 few years and haven’t had any problems with light gathering during low light conditions

 

[Old-Cat]

Wow! Things got serious.

 

[Macintosh]

This is important stuff. Im glad folks are finally getting serious about it. All this lighthearted banter about topics of such gravity is unacceptable.

 

[plebe]

Do you need to borrow some binoculars?

So I can’t hear anything moving because it’s raining. And it must be too dark to see the deer with the naked eye, or I’d just pull up with my scoped rifle. At this point am I to be scanning the “dense” woods constantly with binoculars for, idk, 30mins or however long this absurd theoretical situation requires?