Shooting magnums more better

[eod.mickelson]

Okay, so first things first, I have low recoiling rifles and am completely on board with the fact that you don't need a huge magnum to kill a deer at 100 yards. I've loved listening to @Formidilosus on The Hunt Backcountry and Shoot2Hunt and the logical approach is awesome.

That being said, I have a 300 Norma hunting rifle that has a deep sentimental value to me and I shoot it quite well prone, but want to improve positional and off hand shooting with it. While I understand it will never be a 6 creed, are there any resources on how to improve shooting heavy recoiling rifles?

While shooting recently I was practicing kneeling shooting and tried a few different grips on the rifle (heavy grip, lighter grip, different hand positions etc) and didn't really notice any one position that was better than the other. I suppose I am just looking to see how those who shoot larger rifles manage to maximize their effectiveness to the highest level they can, regardless of total recoil.

 

[rookieforever33]

Muzzle brake

 

[Formidilosus]

Okay, so first things first, I have low recoiling rifles and am completely on board with the fact that you don't need a huge magnum to kill a deer at 100 yards. I've loved listening to @Formidilosus on The Hunt Backcountry and Shoot2Hunt and the logical approach is awesome.

That being said, I have a 300 Norma hunting rifle that has a deep sentimental value to me and I shoot it quite well prone, but want to improve positional and off hand shooting with it. While I understand it will never be a 6 creed, are there any resources on how to improve shooting heavy recoiling rifles?

While shooting recently I was practicing kneeling shooting and tried a few different grips on the rifle (heavy grip, lighter grip, different hand positions etc) and didn't really notice any one position that was better than the other. I suppose I am just looking to see how those who shoot larger rifles manage to maximize their effectiveness to the highest level they can, regardless of total recoil.

I shoot them exactly the same as small cartridges. Same technique across the board.- what is optimum control for a 300 Norma, is optimum control for a 22CM.


Does the rifle have a muzzle brake or suppressor?

 

[eod.mickelson]

Muzzle brake

I have a dead air nomad Ti with ebrake on it, which does a pretty good job at reducing recoil some.

 

[TaperPin]

Okay, so first things first, I have low recoiling rifles and am completely on board with the fact that you don't need a huge magnum to kill a deer at 100 yards. I've loved listening to form on The Hunt Backcountry and Shoot2Hunt and the logical approach is awesome.

That being said, I have a 300 Norma hunting rifle that has a deep sentimental value to me and I shoot it quite well prone, but want to improve positional and off hand shooting with it. While I understand it will never be a 6 creed, are there any resources on how to improve shooting heavy recoiling rifles?

While shooting recently I was practicing kneeling shooting and tried a few different grips on the rifle (heavy grip, lighter grip, different hand positions etc) and didn't really notice any one position that was better than the other. I suppose I am just looking to see how those who shoot larger rifles manage to maximize their effectiveness to the highest level they can, regardless of total recoil.

That’s a good question, because recoil does complicate a few things, at least for me. I had groups with higher recoiling guns that were shifting almost 1 MOA depending on the position, while the 243 groups weren’t.

The main issue is holding on, but not too tight. I’ve never been a fan of simply letting go of the forend, even when shooting over a pack, because of the extra muzzle jump and it’s much more difficult to get back on target.

Maybe it’s second nature to others, but it took years to understand the importance of gripping hard enough to not slip off the forend and pistol grip, but allowing the arms to be 90% neutral and just along for the ride until after the shot, then quickly pull the gun back on target. That’s somewhat natural with lower recoiling guns, but not being tense was something I had to overcome as recoil levels increased.

At least for me there’s no way around pulling the rifle into the shoulder with the trigger hand with at least enough force to snuggle the recoil pad up to the shoulder with a few pounds of force.

My original heavy recoiling rifle was an old tang safety Ruger with the hard recoil pad. I tried a PAST shoulder shield pad and really liked it, but it adds 1/2” to the length of pull, so I began shortening all the heavy recoiling stocks to be correct with the pad. While hunting a shot might be taken with the pack on, or clothing adds a bit of thickness, so the shortened length of pull isn’t noticed in the field.

Problems holding the rifle really show themselves when firing two or three shots quickly - strong arm it so muzzle rise is minimal and it pulled the point of impact. Limp arm it and muzzle rise is excessive, the scope is more likely to get into your face, and it’s hard to see dust or the target reaction. There’s a happy medium that has to be reinforced with practice to build muscle memory.

All that sounds pretty straightforward, like I over think it, but the amount of forend grip is so important to my shooting style, I even hold the forend on the bench when using a sand bag front rest, or when using short bipods. The light weight 7 mag that was super accurate showed another issue if the forend isn’t held not related to the above mentioned shift, it changes impacts up and to the right 1/4 MOA for me - if the gun wasn’t such a good shooter I would have never noticed. It might not sound like much, but how many thousands of rounds have many of us fired to get an extra 1/4 MOA. That seems to be more of an issue the lighter the rifle and higher the recoil.

If the rifle is squared up to prone, a host of eye relief and cheek weld issues can plague someone when switching to sitting or standing. It also forces someone to let go of the forend sometimes and hold it others. I suspect I’m not the only one with groups that shift when the forend is let go of, but it’s rarely talked about.

One year I decided to not use the 243 trainer/plinker/rock killer and only shoot the 7 mag and 340 wby. It wasn’t as pleasant, but more importantly it didn’t change my groups any - it did burn up a barrel by that fall, and that’s about it. Ever since then I don’t wear the barrels out of larger hunting rifles forcing them to be a trainer. There’s nothing wrong with it, there’s just no advantage, at least for me.

That’s all I have.

 

[eod.mickelson]

I shoot them exactly the same as small cartridges. Same technique across the board.- what is optimum control for a 300 Norma, is optimum control for a 22CM.


Does the rifle have a muzzle brake or suppressor?

I currently have a dead air nomad Ti with e brake on it, but also have a piercision 5 port titanium brake I can run on it as well.

 

[TaperPin]

I don’t buy it that a small gun can or should be shot the exact same as a big kicker. That’s a recipe for bad results.

 

[Formidilosus]

I currently have a dead air nomad Ti with e brake on it, but also have a piercision 5 port titanium brake I can run on it as well.

Ok.


What is the rifle setup, and do you have any pictures of your positions while you are shooting it?

 

[wyosam]

I shoot them exactly the same as small cartridges. Same technique across the board.- what is optimum control for a 300 Norma, is optimum control for a 22CM.


Does the rifle have a muzzle brake or suppressor?

^that. One thing that helps is shoot that same rifle, same cartridge with a bunch less recoil. That’s a lot of case to tame down, but I bet with some digging you can find a recipe for a really tame load. I like low speed cast bullet loads for this, but I don’t shoot anything with that much capacity. My 7-08 ackley with a 160gr cast bullet at like 1700 FPS, or 338-284 with a 205 about 1600 are both a blast for positional practice on steel. Lobbing those 300+ will put your wind reads to the test! Recoil is minimal, and what is there is a slow push. I shoot a lot of low recoil, and it definitely makes my shooting better with regular loads in those same rifles.

Should be able make a pretty good reduced load for that 300 Norma with H4895. Take a max published load, multiply x 0.6 and start there.


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[wyosam]

I don’t buy it that a small gun can or should be shot the exact same as a big kicker. That’s a recipe for bad results.

The mechanics are the same, but you sure cants shoot them in all the same positions or you’re likely to end up with the mark of shame at some point.


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[eod.mickelson]

Ok.


What is the rifle setup, and do you have any pictures of your positions while you are shooting it?

I don't have any pictures of me shooting it, but next time I get out I will take some, that's a good idea. I often shoot by myself and forget to bring my GoPro because I'm old and forgetful

It is a lone peak razor action, manners long-range Hunter with the mini chassis, currently has a 26-in proof carbon, NX8 4-32, and an atlas or ckye pod. I'm currently shooting 225 eldms at 2975

 

[Hnthrdr]

I don’t buy it that a small gun can or should be shot the exact same as a big kicker. That’s a recipe for bad results.

Technique is technique. Form is form. 22 or 338 shot sequence should be the same

 

[Dust Rider]

I run the Omega 300 with the Bravo Anchor Brake on my 300 Win Mag and 300WSM.
It really helps to tame the recoil. I build a solid rest with my pack and tripod.
Im also built like a brick shithouse, so I got that going for me...

 

[Choupique]

One thing that helps is shoot that same rifle, same cartridge with a bunch less recoil.

I'm not a fan. I want it to be what it is when I'll be shooting game with it.

I did the light load thing before and I felt like it made me even more conscious of the recoil when shooting hunting ammo, so I quit doing it. YMMV.

It is great for shooting more for cheaper.

 

[TaperPin]

Technique is technique. Form is form. 22 or 338 shot sequence should be the same

Nope. You guys want to barely hold a rifle, rest your thumb to the side and not hold the pistol grip, barely any pressure on the shoulder, maybe even free recoil it, then have a hard time controlling it and blame an inability to get back on target on the cartridge.

 

[TaperPin]

Technique is technique. Form is form. 22 or 338 shot sequence should be the

That’s a good way to get beat up by the rifle - for 4 decades since that first 338, every time an experienced shooter of smaller cartridges wants to shoot something with more recoil for the first time, it’s instantly obvious that their technique is not ideal for something that shoves them around. It is different.

 

[TaperPin]

It is a lone peak razor action, manners long-range Hunter with the mini chassis, currently has a 26-in proof carbon, NX8 4-32, and an atlas or ckye pod. I'm currently shooting 225 eldms at 2975

Another thing that helps train your body to not get involuntarily movements during recoil in the face, hands, arms, shoulder, or even torso, are dummy cartridges. I check myself occasionally to nip any small flinching in the bud. Mix in dummy cartridges with full power loads and you’ll know instantly - it’s a natural human thing and we all get jumpy at times, but it just takes a little work to nip it in the bud. That applies to all cartridges - I’m a firm believer in all shooters using dummy cartridges from time to time.

Another somewhat related issue is trigger control - even if someone isn’t yanking the trigger, anticipation of the shot can and does play mind games with folks using all cartridges, but as recoil goes up it’s more likely. I shoot much better now that my brain is trained to shoot quickly as soon as the crosshairs start to cross onto the target, and not allow the crosshairs to linger and gun to go off somewhat randomly with a long drawn out trigger squeeze. It’s not something I’ve invented - many folks call it active trigger control. Watching PRS scope cams you’ll notice as soon as the crosshairs are barely on target the gun fires.

The biggest challenge with recoil is overcoming our brains.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Nope. You guys want to barely hold a rifle, rest your thumb to the side and not hold the pistol grip, barely any pressure on the shoulder, maybe even free recoil it, then have a hard time controlling it and blame an inability to get back on target on the cartridge.

I’ll agree to disagree on this one. Didn’t learn marksmanship anywhere fancy but had some fantastic NCO’s in my platoons and companies that helped me become a competent shooter. Was fortunate to lead a sniper section for a while. We shot 50 cal, 300 win and .308s shot them all the same, same shot sequence every time

 

[hereinaz]

Get the rifle perfectly set up for you?

 

[jimh406]

Reload it down and/or use lighter bullets.