Shooting handguns to improve rifle skill

[Yaremkiv]

I think you're using master very loosely here lol

Yes of course. Nothing easy about mastering anything but the road is shorter for rifles than it is handguns is all I'm saying.

 

[Gstew1930]

Yes of course. Nothing easy about mastering anything but the road is shorter for rifles than it is handguns is all I'm saying.

I can get on board with that

 

[Jpsmith1]

My experience is very little. The dry fire has seemed to help you?

Dry fire with a handgun is hugely helpful

 

[id_jon]

Dry fire with a handgun is hugely helpful

And it feels like magic to see better numbers on the shot timer after "not shooting" for a week or two

 

[Jpsmith1]

And it feels like magic to see better numbers on the shot timer after "not shooting" for a week or two

Not a 'shoot fast' pistol guy. I'm a shoot far pistol guy but knowing how that trigger breaks and knowing you're doing it consistently is priceless

 

[sconnieVLP]

Oh im getting my rounds off. I might not hit anything but if im gonna suck, ill do it quickly .
View attachment 1004704

I’d strongly recommend taking the complete opposite approach. Go slow, be deliberate, and get your hits.

On the first stage of your first match your IQ is going to be cut in half the moment the timer beeps. If you aren’t worried about the timer you’ll actually be able to pay attention to what you’re doing. This is important for a few reasons, the first is being safe. You state you haven’t put many rounds through a pistol, and USPSA involves more than just standing there punching holes. You’ll be running with the gun, and it may take a little bit to 1) become comfortable doing that and 2) be able to do it with the presence of mind to not do something stupid with the pistol and get DQ’d for a 180 violation or hurt yourself/someone else.

Second, you’ll actually be able to focus on what you’re doing and not blindly try to go as fast as you can. Focus on the motion of a good draw, focus on where your hands go during a reload, focus on actually hitting what you’re aiming at. The speed will come with comfort with the gun and practice.

When you go shoot the match tell your squad it’s your first time and that you’re inexperienced with a pistol. With near certainty I can tell you that they’ll be extremely gracious with showing you the ropes, giving tips, and giving you some extra time/grace on the stages. (An aside - always help paste targets unless you’re on deck. Nothing worse than a guy showing up and not pitching in, it helps everything go much faster.)

In terms of practice, I can’t emphasize enough how important dry firing is. 15 min/day and you’ll make incredible progress. Find a dry firing regimen, get a shot timer or phone app shot timer, and get after it. I like Ben Stoeger’s “Dry Fire Reloaded”. All kinds of good drills out there though.

 

[Gstew1930]

Thats good advice. Thank you very much

 

[43.6N]

Does anybody have any online resources/videos for good USPSA type fundamentals?
I’m sure a lot of us would rather not build bad habits that then need to be un-learned down the road.

 

[North of 60]

OP, another important point i don't think was mentioned is developing a feel for trigger reset after firing. If the trigger is only released to the point of reset after firing vs relaxing the trigger to its normal position after firing, it takes less force to fire again if only released to the point of reset. This is more important for pistols with normal trigger pull weight vs modified pistols or race guns.

Definitely start slow and develop good form as mentioned above. Slow is smooth, Smooth is fast.

Watch out if you start shooting USPSA, as you may end up deciding you want a race gun.

Another way RS will graciously help you spend your $

 

[Jermh]

I didn’t read back to see what your experience is, but I’m new to getting serious with a handgun as well. I started to shoot a lot of rounds, but after getting serious about dryfire drills with targets in my garage, I don’t feel like I need to expend so many live rounds to grow in my competency. Form gave me a list of drills to do and having some structure to follow really helps.

Any chance you could share which drills these are?

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Any chance you could share which drills these are?

You'd have to ask Form. I don't think they have been made publicly available. I'm sure there are dryfire drills you could find online though, or on Youtube.

 

[43.6N]

Tagging @RockAndSage @Nine Banger @Formidilosus

Looking for handgun drills, and general guidance to avoid building bad habits.

 

[MTniko]

Makes total sense! I've noticed that archery has greatly helped my rifle shooting. The opposite holds true as well. My shot process is almost identical for both, so I think the more reps you get in with that mindset, the better! May even extend into other areas of life...

 

[id_jon]

Tagging @RockAndSage @Nine Banger @Formidilosus

Looking for handgun drills, and general guidance to avoid building bad habits.

Bill drills, blake drills(3 targets at same distance, 1 target width apart, 2 rounds on each), controlled pairs, 4 aces(draw, fire 2, reload, fire 2). Shot timer is an absolute must, filming yourself helps. I honestly wouldn't worry about building bad habits, they're gonna happen, shooting a lot and hit factor scoring will expose them. Lately I've been setting up uspsa classifier stages and shooting them, then you have known scores to compare to.

 

[RockAndSage]

Tagging @RockAndSage @Nine Banger @Formidilosus

Looking for handgun drills, and general guidance to avoid building bad habits.

Probably the most important thing I can offer, are concepts before actual drills. These are the big ones:

1) All accuracy is subject to a smooth trigger-press, straight back to the tip of your nose.

2) An excellent trigger-press requires isolation of the muscles of the trigger-finger, separate from everything else going on with your hands.

3) "Input" of pressures from your hands during the grip needs to be consistent and balanced, with the goal of both isolating your trigger finger during the press and creating consistent up/down tracking of your sights as they return to point-of-aim, predictably.

4) At all points during the firing sequence, your visual focus must be on the target - not the red dot. Choose the tiniest part of the target you can find, connect your visual focus to it like there's a rod between your eyes and that target, and don't let your eyes move off it until you decide you're done putting holes in it.

5) Grip and vision are where you control recoil - absolutely focused on that target with the sights tracking consistently in your grip without breaking contact with any part of the gun. Physically, it's almost entirely hands and forearms - tense anything else up too much and it makes transitions harder, along with fatiguing you faster, without any real benefit. Shoulders and traps relaxed, not hunched. The first place grip contact is usually lost is between support-hand index finger and the trigger-guard, followed by support-hand connection to the gun's grip/frame - if this happens, the grip needs improvement. Adjust your hand orientations and pressures until you get a grip that allows for an excellent trigger press, with consistent and predictable sight tracking up and down, without your hands slipping or losing contact with the gun at all for long strings of fire.

Start all of this with dry-fire. Red-dot sights are exceptional at helping teach trigger-press, as they show the slightest movement very well. If you can't press the trigger without the dot moving, you haven't gotten a command of the trigger press, trigger-finger isolation, or a balanced and consistent grip yet. It really is that simple. Get a grip that allows for this - and then once you add the recoil of live-fire, expect to make additional refinements to that grip. Sometimes, a lot of refinements. Then bring that back into dry-fire, and set it into your neural wiring even deeper through reps. Repeat this cycle.

Grip is probably the biggest area of voodoo, misunderstanding, and, frankly, rapid evolution within high-performance pistol shooting. Just in the last 15 years or so, there's been about 4-6 different core "grips" that have been developed by elite shooters - some have declined in popularity as others have proven more consistently effective individually and across larger numbers of shooters. But some of the best of these shooters even adjust and tune their grips a little with different pistols, especially when one gun's grip-frame circumference is a lot bigger than another, or the trigger reach is a lot different. The best place to start learning a good grip is probably YouTube - just make sure the person is a legitimately elite shooter, not just a former .mil/swat/tactical anything. The most cutting edge stuff is coming out of competition shooting.

That should be a good start.

 

[43.6N]

Probably the most important thing I can offer, are concepts before actual drills. These are the big ones:

1) All accuracy is subject to a smooth trigger-press, straight back to the tip of your nose.

2) An excellent trigger-press requires isolation of the muscles of the trigger-finger, separate from everything else going on with your hands.

3) "Input" of pressures from your hands during the grip needs to be consistent and balanced, with the goal of both isolating your trigger finger during the press and creating consistent up/down tracking of your sights as they return to point-of-aim, predictably.

4) At all points during the firing sequence, your visual focus must be on the target - not the red dot. Choose the tiniest part of the target you can find, connect your visual focus to it like there's a rod between your eyes and that target, and don't let your eyes move off it until you decide you're done putting holes in it.

5) Grip and vision are where you control recoil - absolutely focused on that target with the sights tracking consistently in your grip without breaking contact with any part of the gun. Physically, it's almost entirely hands and forearms - tense anything else up too much and it makes transitions harder, along with fatiguing you faster, without any real benefit. Shoulders and traps relaxed, not hunched. The first place grip contact is usually lost is between support-hand index finger and the trigger-guard, followed by support-hand connection to the gun's grip/frame - if this happens, the grip needs improvement. Adjust your hand orientations and pressures until you get a grip that allows for an excellent trigger press, with consistent and predictable sight tracking up and down, without your hands slipping or losing contact with the gun at all for long strings of fire.

Start all of this with dry-fire. Red-dot sights are exceptional at helping teach trigger-press, as they show the slightest movement very well. If you can't press the trigger without the dot moving, you haven't gotten a command of the trigger press, trigger-finger isolation, or a balanced and consistent grip yet. It really is that simple. Get a grip that allows for this - and then once you add the recoil of live-fire, expect to make additional refinements to that grip. Sometimes, a lot of refinements. Then bring that back into dry-fire, and set it into your neural wiring even deeper through reps. Repeat this cycle.

Grip is probably the biggest area of voodoo, misunderstanding, and, frankly, rapid evolution within high-performance pistol shooting. Just in the last 15 years or so, there's been about 4-6 different core "grips" that have been developed by elite shooters - some have declined in popularity as others have proven more consistently effective individually and across larger numbers of shooters. But some of the best of these shooters even adjust and tune their grips a little with different pistols, especially when one gun's grip-frame circumference is a lot bigger than another, or the trigger reach is a lot different. The best place to start learning a good grip is probably YouTube - just make sure the person is a legitimately elite shooter, not just a former .mil/swat/tactical anything. The most cutting edge stuff is coming out of competition shooting.

That should be a good start.

Absolute gold. Thank you for taking the time to put all that down!

 

[K9kodi]

Coming from someone who has shot since I was about 6 or 7, and in my 40s have been involved in a career where I depend on a handgun as primary, I can tell you two things matter, 1) task analysis 2) you gotta train the thing you want to be good at.

 

[ThunderJack49]

Youtube is your friend on this journey.

There are plenty of world class USPSA shooters out there, all wanting your likes and views, churning out content almost daily. I've found "Become Dominant with your pistol" a great video to start with. Ben Stoeger and Matt Pranka have entire courses online for free. Hunter Constantine has a 15 minute video on how to dry fire. But, like most things you just have to put in the reps and explore.

I really like my SIRT pistol, but it really isn't necessary. Targets are great and very cheap, but you can start with light switches.

 

[K9kodi]

I guess I missed the question with my reply, does handgunnning make you a better rifleman? I’d say just being confident and owning one platform is the mentality that transfers. I don’t know how to explain it, but if it’s a m4 platform, shotgun platform or handgun platform, being comfortable enough that it is a mere extension of your physical aptitude. If you find yourself thinking or overthinking, constantly changing positions or grip, you ain’t right. So the skill of handgunning where it becomes second nature can transfer over in the mental aspect, just being behind the scope and knowing the comfortable feeling of just owning it and sending it.