Separate Day for Quads and Hammies

[bigbassin]

Curious for those lifters out there if anyone is splitting up quads and hamstrings into 2 days, then hitting both harder than if they were combined.

Issues I’m trying to fix and schedule I’m trying to build a routine around:

1) I bench more than I squat as of last week. Clearly my chest workout is working, I haven’t made gains on legs in well over a year. Wondering if creating 2 specialized leg days will help

2) Currently squat on leg day, then deadlift on back day. Think by doing them sequential days I screw whichever one happens the following day. Obviously same day will impact intensity

3) Dont want to squat or deadlift after Wednesday because it screws my Saturday hiking or hunting

4) Want to increase my work capacity hiking/hunting. 7 miles with light pack on trail or 20 pound pack for about 3-4 miles off trail wears me out, terrain is relatively steep and lots up and down, but certainly not mountain elevations

5) Lungs typically fail before my legs, but I’m assuming the more load they can handle the less blood flow I need to steal from my legs

6) Continuing to run needs to be prioritized over leg gains. Down 30 pounds this year, 8 more to go to get to my goal weight. Also, as referenced above, my lungs fail before my legs typically

Current Routine:

- M: Chest, 24 minute run
- T: Back (includes deadlift), 16 minute run
- W: Legs, walk 3 miles
- R: Shoulders, 16 minute run
- F: 24 minute run

Leg day consist of:

- Squat - 4x6 250
- Dumbbell Lunge - 3x8 60s (1 in each hand, 120 total)
- 1 legged RDL - 3x8 45
- Calf Raise - 3x10 100

Thinking about splitting it as follows:

- M: Quads, run 16 minutes
- T: Back, run 24 minutes
- W: Hammies and lower backrun 16 minutes
- R: Upper Back/lats, run 24 minutes
-F: run 24 minutes

On quad day my plan would be:

4x8 Squat
3x10 lunge
3x10 leg press
3x10 leg extension
3x10 calf raises

Hamstring day:

5x5 deadlift
3x8 1 legged rdl
3x8 Straight leg deadlift
3x8 hamstring curl
3x8 back extension

Any issues/gaps you see? Does it actually benefit me to split legs like this or am I playing with diminishing returns?

 

[Will_m]

I can barely do squats and deadlifts with a day rest between them. Can’t imagine splitting quads and hams up. I mostly diddle though as I just go through the motions on 5/3/1 for the most part.

 

[P Carter]

This comment probably won’t help anything, but to state the obvious, but…if endurance is limiting your performance, shouldn’t you focus on the endurance work? If you have another performance goal - like increasing squat or whatever - then obviously that’s fine and just ignore the comment.

Just a tad puzzled by the self diagnosis (“lungs” give out before legs, and you get worn out easily) and the conclusion (more leg lifting). Even more puzzled by this conclusion - not sure what it means: “Lungs typically fail before my legs, but I’m assuming the more load they can handle the less blood flow I need to steal from my legs.” I don’t think that’s how it works…

Maybe go to 3, preferably 5, hour-long runs/hikes/aerobic-zone workouts for 12 weeks to build an aerobic base, while scaling back lifting (but still doing maintenance lifting), and see if that improves performance. (Obviously you can’t double your running in a week…increase 10% per session or so.) Then you can see whether you feel the need to increase leg strength.

In other words, if you’re lacking in endurance, strength isn’t going to build or make up for that endurance.

 

[NCTrees]

I’m no expert, and it seems to me that P Carter is raising some great points, but if you only want to focus on gaining strength I’m not confident your current or proposed workout is going to get you anywhere quickly. You may want to consider way less reps per set, way heavier weight per rep. Westside / conjugate wouldn’t be a bad place to start researching. Read up on Mike Mentzer’s workouts for another example.

 

[bigbassin]

Just a tad puzzled by the self diagnosis (“lungs” give out before legs, and you get worn out easily) and the conclusion (more leg lifting). Even more puzzled by this conclusion - not sure what it means: “Lungs typically fail before my legs, but I’m assuming the more load they can handle the less blood flow I need to steal from my legs.” I don’t think that’s how it works…

I know my legs are not literally taking blood from my lungs, I was trying to simplify my thought process that strength is 50% of the equation on stamina, so by increasing the top limit of strength while continuing to work out endurance (running), it would increase my overall stamina. I may be totally wrong, which is why I’m asking for opinions, but it made sense in my head.

You are probably correct in saying that if my stamina is the main problem then I need to double down on cardio and just work on leg maintenance. That’s just less fun for me and not as glamorous as moving heavy weights, so I guess I was hoping for another possible option.

 

[DenimChicken]

To each their own, but I haven't found "functional" success by breaking up into body building type splits. Concur with those above, if endurance is your limiting factor, I'd do more sport specific or at least hit the stair master a couple times a week.

When it comes to your workouts, I'd focus more on the big lifts (squat, OHP, bench, DL) and ditch the accessory work like the calf raises. I'd either do a M-W-F lift with endurance/cardio on T-Th, or do 2 days lifting and more sport specific/endurance work.

It all comes down to goals; are you looking to lose weight, get in back country shape, or get big? Tailor your workouts to your goals. If you aren't super creative or savvy, it might be worth paying the $20 or whatever for a prebuilt program like MTNTOUGH.

 

[bigbassin]

Read up on Mike Mentzer’s workouts for another example.

Definitely interesting, have you tried the routine?

 

[bigbassin]

It all comes down to goals; are you looking to lose weight, get in back country shape, or get big? Tailor your workouts to your goals.

Are you telling me I can’t do all 3 ?

This is actually probably really good advice for me. In my head I’d like to run a marathon, hold my own in a strong man competition, and look like Arnold in his prime. In reality, there’s probably a reason why I can’t think of a real life person that checks all 3 of those boxes.

Probably need to be sure which goal is the most important, then program accordingly.

 

[NCTrees]

Definitely interesting, have you tried the routine?

I have not, but I do believe the concept is sound depending on your goal. I’m too old and fat to be worried about being that ripped. When I’m not on my slacker regime I have been trying to stick with a conjugate system though. On the max days the main lift will be 10-13 sets for 1-3 reps that’ll culminate in you lifting 95% + of your max. It’s worked well for me.

 

[DenimChicken]

Are you telling me I can’t do all 3 ?

This is actually probably really good advice for me. In my head I’d like to run a marathon, hold my own in a strong man competition, and look like Arnold in his prime. In reality, there’s probably a reason why I can’t think of a real life person that checks all 3 of those boxes.

Probably need to be sure which goal is the most important, then program accordingly.

Not unless you are a superhuman or heavily supplemented. I've varied and gone from running races to heavy powerlifting, and at each extreme the other suffers. Someone once told me that he wanted to run faster than the lifters and lift more than the runners, and I thought that was pretty damn good advice. For my personal 20 year fitness journey, I've finally found a decent balance by trying to heed that advice.

I have been pretty pleased with the Tactical Barbell programs; they sell hardcopy books for pretty cheap and are infinitely variable. They are targeted for military/LE which shares a lot of similarities to backcountry fitness with having raw strength and also being able to move heavy loads over long distances.

 

[SloppyJ]

How about doing a push/pull split? That might help. The proposed split you have is way too heavy on back and legs. You cant recover.

If anything do
M - Legs
T - Chest
W- Back
Then whatever for the rest of the week. You need as much time between overlapping body parts as possible.

What about doing some more compound movements? You could do cleans to overhead press and hit back, legs, and shoulders in one exercise for example.

Look into more compound lifts circuit style. I think you need to flip the script and start doing something different. If you can bench more than you squat then you've severely neglected your legs and a couple extra isolation movements isnt going to catch you up anytime soon.

 

[WDO]

Take a look in the fitness sub forum, there have been some recent discussion on endurance that have solid knowledge.

As for the initial question, no splitting the quad and hams won’t help your hiking. Could it a bit, maybe. Will it get you stronger in those lifts, probably.
In my opinion, it may help “bulletproof” legs( durability/injury prevention), but it probably won’t help hiking( or at least not enough to really see).

From a performance perspective, I’ve regretted not having a longer ramp for muscular endurance and continuing to build aerobic base.

if you do decide to focus in endurance/ stamina and pick a program, go with a sport specific program. Most “stamina” or conditioning programs are gpp, which is good overall but may leave you thinking “why did i waste my time with this”

The easy button is bodybuiling/strength upper body split to get your gym fix, heavy hiking on steep inclines( preferably uneven/ off trail) for leg endurance, and long hikes at zone 2 for aerobic.

 

[Marble]

I don't do any of the leg specific weight training currently. I'll start back up in November. IMO, during hunting season, it doesn't help. My goal is stamina and decent climbing speed.

But I'm also a bit different because I have legs that look like i work them out. My calves are crazy large.

My suggestion would be two full days rest between any leg exercises.

Your diet will also make a large difference, including the proper supplements. You cannot out train a bad diet. No matter how hard you try.

When prepping for competitions, I have a 4 day rotation with a break in the middle, so it's basically 2 days on, break, 2 days etc.

Cardio is mostly daily.

Only you will know if you need a bigger break. To answer that, do your workout after 2 full days rest and then do them how you plan. If you notice a difference in the amount you can lift or reps you can complete, that will tell you the answer.

Sent from my SM-S918U using Tapatalk

 

[SWOHTR]

My recommendation is to pick one area and stick with that for a while. By “while” I mean “years.”

You wanna run? Great, but you won’t be strong.

You wanna be strong? Great, but you won’t be fast.

Granted I’m basing this on my own experiences from the last 18 years.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

PPL split 2x a week

 

[LCguy]

I would figure out a split that hits each muscle group at least twice a week. Once a week isn't doing much for you IMO, in terms of muscular endurance or gains. For me personally, my body has responded well to chest/arms and legs/back splits. Monday/Wednesday I'm doing chest and arms and Tuesday/Thursday I'm doing back and legs. I don't really see an issue squatting and deadliftong on the same day or sequential days but that's me and my body. I also did push/pull/legs for a bit but I found that A) I was getting bored and B) since I almost never have time to work out 6 days a week, I wasn't seeing the gains/progress I was wanting because I wasn't consistently hitting every muscle group more than once a week. One last point, working out should be fun, so find lifts and a split that is fun for you and stick to that. Mix cardio in as much as possible so you have a solid aerobic base and hammer as much protein as you can.

 

[Beagle1]

Zone 2 workouts.

 

[justinspicher]

Your schedule made me tired just reading it.

 

[5MilesBack]

It's been quite some time since I hit the weights hard, but I'm almost 60 now. But when I did, I always had my days split as:

Chest and back
Arms and shoulders
Legs and torso

Sometimes I'd take a day of rest after the three day cycle, sometimes I'd just start it over without a day of rest but always had at least one day of rest in 7. I'd also end up playing about an hour of basketball after most lifting sessions. That was difficult at best after leg days to start, but my body adapted to it, and missed the basketball if I skipped that. My lifting buddy always complained that "I just keep getting bigger, and you just keep getting stronger"......even though we both did the same type of lifts and reps. However, he was 5'10" and stocky, and I'm 6'6" and lean. Size wasn't my goal.

I also changed up my routine every 6-8 weeks. One 6-8 week cycle I'd lift for strength....low reps, max weight. The next I'd lift for endurance and overall what I will call "functional athletic muscle tone".......mid weight, max reps (20-25). This worked for me very well.

 

[NMJM]

What is your big picture goal? Your leg workout looks great if bodybuilding is your goal. If you want to be strong carrying a pack through the mountains over several days of hunting, do workouts that mimic how you hunt. For instance 2 days of rucking for strength and endurance followed by a run workout the next day to increase VO2 max followed by a rest day and repeat. Upper body focus on bodyweight functional movements, dip, pushups, pullups etc.