Seeking advise on a new rifle

[Formidilosus]

I currently have a 308 and 6.5 creedmoor but I want something that can reach out further.

I was looking at a 28/30 Nosler or 300 PCR as it seems to be the new craze but I don't reload and with all of the nonsense going on I'm afraid that I won't be able to find any ammo.

How often and how many rounds a year do you shoot past 600 yards?

 

[Refund]

How often and how many rounds a year do you shoot past 600 yards?

I typically only practice out to 200-300 yards, I live and hunt in the east mostly so anything over 100 is rare—so are ranges past 100.

I'm trying to prepare for a western hunt next year so I want to take some classes. Trying to get my feet wet with antelope, mule deer or a combo tag. I typically bow hunt so I'm honestly pretty oblivious to long range but it's something I've been interested in.

There is a 1k-1 mile range about 2-2.5 hours away that I'd love to check out.

 

[woods89]

I typically only practice out to 200-300 yards, I live and hunt in the east mostly so anything over 100 is rare—so are ranges past 100.

I'm trying to prepare for a western hunt next year so I want to take some classes. Trying to get my feet wet with antelope, mule deer or a combo tag. I typically bow hunt so I'm honestly pretty oblivious to long range but it's something I've been interested in.

There is a 1k-1 mile range about 2-2.5 hours away that I'd love to check out.

What sort of rifle is your Creedmoor?

@Formidilosus, who posted just above, can enlighten you a bit on how far one is good for on elk!

I've carried mine on an elk hunt. I didn't get to shoot it at an elk, although Colorado's 4 point minimum rule let one live that would have otherwise died, if he had moved his head from behind a tree. My self imposed limit was 400 yds, which was completely a function of my skills, not of my cartridge and bullet of choice. I've shot 300-500 rounds a year for the last couple years, for perspective.

I would not want to "learn" long range with a magnum.

When it comes to long range hunting, there are certainly people who are qualified to do it, and I'm fortunate enough to know a few. Being from the east myself, the biggest thing that holds me back is not being able to shoot in western wind conditions much. Sitting on the side of a mountain with the wind blasting at you is a bit of a punch in the face sometimes. Many of the days I've elk hunted I'd think long and hard about that 400 yd shot. There is a lot of talk on the net about shooting 500-1000, but it's interesting how that when the camera's are rolling there are a lot of rodeo's........

Best of luck!

 

[Refund]

What sort of rifle is your Creedmoor?

@Formidilosus, who posted just above, can enlighten you a bit on how far one is good for on elk!

I've carried mine on an elk hunt. I didn't get to shoot it at an elk, although Colorado's 4 point minimum rule let one live that would have otherwise died, if he had moved his head from behind a tree. My self imposed limit was 400 yds, which was completely a function of my skills, not of my cartridge and bullet of choice. I've shot 300-500 rounds a year for the last couple years, for perspective.

I would not want to "learn" long range with a magnum.

When it comes to long range hunting, there are certainly people who are qualified to do it, and I'm fortunate enough to know a few. Being from the east myself, the biggest thing that holds me back is not being able to shoot in western wind conditions much. Sitting on the side of a mountain with the wind blasting at you is a bit of a punch in the face sometimes. Many of the days I've elk hunted I'd think long and hard about that 400 yd shot. There is a lot of talk on the net about shooting 500-1000, but it's interesting how that when the camera's are rolling there are a lot of rodeo's........

Best of luck!

Thank you much!

I have a Howa 1500.. I know they can be a viable option anywhere from 300-400 yards for elk but I'd much rather be shooting a cartridge that will carry more energy further and won't limit me in the future. Depending on my comfort and/or the conditions I may not even want to shoot further than that with either caliber.

The wind is definitely a concern, as well as altitude changing my POI as I'm basically at sea level here.

Originally, I wanted to check out the PRC or 30 Nosler but it seems like a pretty scarce caliber out this way.

I'd love to get into reloading but not with these prices. I'll continue to hold onto my spent brass and perhaps try to collect some hardware until things come back down. I'll try to prepare myself for that rabbit hole.

Given the current circumstances I don't get to shoot nearly as much as I'd like to, with any luck that will change sometime soon. I won't hold my breath though.

Would you care to elaborate on not wanting to learn on a magnum? Is that just purely a recoil thing? I'm sure it will correct any form issues pretty quickly! I am not a much of a stranger to recoil, I shoot my muzzleloader out to 200-300 yards likely about as accurately as you'd expect a muzzleloader to shoot.


I did some research on "building" a bolt action and I think that I'll stick with my original idea of buying a factory rifle. The price of a Mac Bro or Big Horn and a Proof barrel alone will get me a few hundred dollars away from my budget and will take me a few weeks-months to aquire from their turnover times. Nevermind a carbon stock, trigger, etc. I don't know how a company like CA fits all of that into a $1,800 package but show me sold on a factory rifle once I decide on a caliber.

 

[woods89]

Thank you much!

I have a Howa 1500.. I know they can be a viable option anywhere from 300-400 yards for elk but I'd much rather be shooting a cartridge that will carry more energy further and won't limit me in the future. Depending on my comfort and/or the conditions I may not even want to shoot further than that with either caliber.

I'd use that and buy a bigger rifle when you bump into it's limitations. I don't think the Creedmoor is going to limit you as quickly as you think. There are documented kills on elk on this website at almost double the range you mentioned.

Would you care to elaborate on not wanting to learn on a magnum? Is that just purely a recoil thing? I'm sure it will correct any form issues pretty quickly! I am not a much of a stranger to recoil, I shoot my muzzleloader out to 200-300 yards likely about as accurately as you'd expect a muzzleloader to shoot.

Recoil and cost to shoot. If you are going to shoot a lot it's going to get expensive in a hurry with a magnum. That's why many of us on here have 223's for fundamental work.

I don't like recoil and I don't like brakes. That means I like to shoot lighter cartridges. One of the reasons the 6.5 Creedmoor is so popular is that it's a great intersection of capability and light recoil. And my 223 is just that much better.

 

[Refund]

I'd use that and buy a bigger rifle when you bump into it's limitations. I don't think the Creedmoor is going to limit you as quickly as you think. There are documented kills on elk on this website at almost double the range you mentioned.

Recoil and cost to shoot. If you are going to shoot a lot it's going to get expensive in a hurry with a magnum. That's why many of us on here have 223's for fundamental work.

I don't like recoil and I don't like brakes. That means I like to shoot lighter cartridges. One of the reasons the 6.5 Creedmoor is so popular is that it's a great intersection of capability and light recoil. And my 223 is just that much better.

People either seem to love or hate the 6.5 creedmoor.. I thought it would be nice to get something that may be a little more forgiving.

I hear that.. I'd probably end up doing the same, shoot the 6.5 more because the long range ranges are so much further than me. The 6.5 is still expensive but not as expensive as magnums and long range intended rounds. I don't know if I'd ever invest in a .223, I just don't get enough range time. I do already have a .308 though!

I really don't like breaks much myself, I like my eardrums.. I'm not sure how the Noslers compare in recoil vs a 300, I understand that they're intended to be softer shooting yet produce comparable speed and energy. If I could tolerate the keep a sight picture I wouldn't mind shooting without one—not sure if that would be an option with most magnum loads though.

I've been back and forth on calibers a lot because I don't have much experience behind any of those larger calibers. I thought the 300 WSM was a good option because it's popular enough, there's a lot of options for factory ammo, the action is short, etc. I'm not completely closed off to the long actions though as a couple of ounces aren't going to kill me. I'm just afraid to get into something that's going to virtually disappear in 10-15 years.

Trying to find that perfect intersection such as you stated for a hunting rifle is kind of overwhelming with all of the choices!

 

[Formidilosus]

I typically only practice out to 200-300 yards, I live and hunt in the east mostly so anything over 100 is rare—so are ranges past 100.

So how is it when you “only practice out to 200-300 yards”, and not that much as you’ve stated, that you think a magnum is going to help you?

I do not mean this to be rude, but you need to be learning about shooting, not worrying about magnums when you’re not even close to meeting the capability of what you already have. Magnums aren't going to help you, they are not “more forgiving”- they are less forgiving. When someone says the won’t buy a 223 because they don’t get enough range time, they need to stop talking distance shooting.

The answers in order-

1. Have an extremely stable and reliable rifle system in a low recoiling cartridge, with a scope that works correctly and has an extremely low rate of failure.

2. Buy 1,000 rounds of good ammo.

3). Take a class from a reputable/relevantly experienced instructor.

4). Shoot the rest of the ammo practicing from field conditions to, and past, the distance you want to be able to take game.

 

[woods89]

People either seem to love or hate the 6.5 creedmoor.. I thought it would be nice to get something that may be a little more forgiving.

I hear that.. I'd probably end up doing the same, shoot the 6.5 more because the long range ranges are so much further than me. The 6.5 is still expensive but not as expensive as magnums and long range intended rounds. I don't know if I'd ever invest in a .223, I just don't get enough range time. I do already have a .308 though!

I really don't like breaks much myself, I like my eardrums.. I'm not sure how the Noslers compare in recoil vs a 300, I understand that they're intended to be softer shooting yet produce comparable speed and energy. If I could tolerate the keep a sight picture I wouldn't mind shooting without one—not sure if that would be an option with most magnum loads though.

I've been back and forth on calibers a lot because I don't have much experience behind any of those larger calibers. I thought the 300 WSM was a good option because it's popular enough, there's a lot of options for factory ammo, the action is short, etc. I'm not completely closed off to the long actions though as a couple of ounces aren't going to kill me. I'm just afraid to get into something that's going to virtually disappear in 10-15 years.

Trying to find that perfect intersection such as you stated for a hunting rifle is kind of overwhelming with all of the choices!

Literally one of the best things I did for my shooting was buy a 223 bolt gun. I have an SWFA 3-9 on it which is a very reliable scope, and I can reload for it very cheaply. 24 grains of powder vs 70+ for a magnum. I shoot it a lot and you can often almost watch your rounds impact. You can make huge improvements in ability with one on a 100 yd range if you structure your practice.

 

[Refund]

So how is it when you “only practice out to 200-300 yards”, and not that much as you’ve stated, that you think a magnum is going to help you?

I do not mean this to be rude, but you need to be learning about shooting, not worrying about magnums when you’re not even close to meeting the capability of what you already have. Magnums aren't going to help you, they are not “more forgiving”- they are less forgiving. When someone says the won’t buy a 223 because they don’t get enough range time, they need to stop talking distance shooting.

The answers in order-

1. Have an extremely stable and reliable rifle system in a low recoiling cartridge, with a scope that works correctly and has an extremely low rate of failure.

2. Buy 1,000 rounds of good ammo.

3). Take a class from a reputable/relevantly experienced instructor.

4). Shoot the rest of the ammo practicing from field conditions to, and past, the distance you want to be able to take game.

No worries! I should have chosen my words a little better, I don't think that it's going to help me become a better shooter to shoot a specific caliber in any sense. Like I stated before, I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to shooting anything past 300 yards. When I said forgiving I meant in a ballistic sense, as if I were to shoot an animal at 400 yards and hit something hard, though I would never intend to shoot a massive animal in the shoulder from a considerable distance.

I was under the impression that the 6.5 creedmoor doesn't even produce enough foot pounds of energy to be lethal to an elk past a few hundred yards in most circumstances. This is the main reason I was looking into a magnum. Ultimately, if I'm driving 20+ hours for a chance at an elk, if I only get one opportunity and it's not the greatest angle I may not necessarily want to push that envelope with the 6.5.

Currently trying to figure out what class to take. Likely going to be a drive for me but to develop a good foundation, of course I don't mind.

I think that shooting past your intended range to take an animal from is a very good principal to practice and is of course one that I'm an advocate of.

 

[Refund]

Literally one of the best things I did for my shooting was buy a 223 bolt gun. I have an SWFA 3-9 on it which is a very reliable scope, and I can reload for it very cheaply. 24 grains of powder vs 70+ for a magnum. I shoot it a lot and you can often almost watch your rounds impact. You can make huge improvements in ability with one on a 100 yd range if you structure your practice.

Buying a more affordable .223 may be in the cards for me but I don't know if I'd be willing to invest in one that is the exact same platform that I'd be investing in to hunt with is what I was getting at.

 

[woods89]

No worries! I should have chosen my words a little better, I don't think that it's going to help me become a better shooter to shoot a specific caliber in any sense. Like I stated before, I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to shooting anything past 300 yards. When I said forgiving I meant in a ballistic sense, as if I were to shoot an animal at 400 yards and hit something hard, though I would never intend to shoot a massive animal in the shoulder from a considerable distance.

I was under the impression that the 6.5 creedmoor doesn't even produce enough foot pounds of energy to be lethal to an elk past a few hundred yards in most circumstances. This is the main reason I was looking into a magnum. Ultimately, if I'm driving 20+ hours for a chance at an elk, if I only get one opportunity and it's not the greatest angle I may not necessarily want to push that envelope with the 6.5.

Currently trying to figure out what class to take. Likely going to be a drive for me but to develop a good foundation, of course I don't mind.

I think that shooting past your intended range to take an animal from is a very good principal to practice and is of course one that I'm an advocate of.

Have a look in the 223 for deer, bear, elk, and moose thread in the firearms section. There's an elk in that thread that was shot at over 400 yds with a 77 gr TMK out of a 223. As well as a moose shot through the shoulder at 160 something with the same round. Modern bullets have changed a lot of things.

I almost had a 300 Win Mag put together a year or two ago. One of my customers is a great gunsmith and I can trade work for gunsmithing, which makes it a lot easier to take. For me it came down to knowing it would have to be braked, and I knew I would not shoot it anywhere near as much as my lighter rifles. So I hung the idea up. For me I believe that was the right decision.

Buying a more affordable .223 may be in the cards for me but I don't know if I'd be willing to invest in one that is the exact same platform that I'd be investing in to hunt with is what I was getting at.

Mines not identical. Ideally they would be but I'd say don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.
You might be the exception but most people are not going to shoot a big rifle as much as a easy recoiling one.

 

[Totoro]

For $3k, there are lots of ready to go rifles and add optic to go.

Like other said, Seekins/Christensen/Bergara are well thought of rifles.

Tikka for budget factory with options to upgrade later.

Alamo makes a dandy rifle in the Maverick, I few shooting buddies have them and really enjoy them.

But for my money, build it.

 

[452b264]

Hey all,

Disclaimer: I'm fairly ignorant to rifles as I've been bow hunting for the majority of my time.

All of these options have me overwhelmed. I'm going to liquidate a gun or two to get a nice rifle and some glass.

I currently have a 308 and 6.5 creedmoor but I want something that can reach out further.

I was looking at a 28/30 Nosler or 300 PCR as it seems to be the new craze but I don't reload and with all of the nonsense going on I'm afraid that I won't be able to find any ammo.

I have my eyes on a 300 WSM Ridgeline, shorter action and shorter barrel can save a few ounces. Paying that much I wonder if I should look into used custom long range rifles. I've also been reading about Christenson having some fit and finish problems but I understand that their customer service is great.

Edit: This is going to be for a western hunt for mule deer/elk, perhaps antelope eventually if the 6.5 creedmoor won't make do.

Sorry, this question has probably been asked hundreds of times but I can't find all that much I do on the Ridgeline specifically and I've definitely had buyers remorse on guns in the past.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

I think the CA 300 WSM would make an excellent deer/elk rifle. A friend of mine has one its nice and light and shoots very well.
I wouldnt invest in a 223 for western hunting most states have caliber restrictions.

 

[Formidilosus]

No worries! I should have chosen my words a little better, I don't think that it's going to help me become a better shooter to shoot a specific caliber in any sense.

No, it’s about being able to shoot enough volume to gain skill. It is easy to shoot 200 rounds in a day at the range practicing with a 223. You will not do so with anything that recoils more. You lack skill and knowledge and you need range time to gain that. Even the recoil of a light 6.5 CM is too much for most for volume practice,

Like I stated before, I'm fairly ignorant when it comes to shooting anything past 300 yards. When I said forgiving I meant in a ballistic sense, as if I were to shoot an animal at 400 yards and hit something hard, though I would never intend to shoot a massive animal in the shoulder from a considerable distance.

You’re going down a rabbit hole with this. Both your 308 and 6.5 have no issues going through a shoulder (scapula) at 400 yards… or at 800

I was under the impression that the 6.5 creedmoor doesn't even produce enough foot pounds of energy to be lethal to an elk past a few hundred yards in most circumstances. This is the main reason I was looking into a magnum. Ultimately, if I'm driving 20+ hours for a chance at an elk, if I only get one opportunity and it's not the greatest angle I may not necessarily want to push that envelope with the 6.5.

Ft-lbs of energy is not a wounding mechanism. It’s worthless as a determiner of killing ability. The 6.5 is way more than enough for bull elk at well past your stated range. Pick a good bullet, put it into the chest and you have a dead elk.


With what you’ve written, a magnum will hurt you, not help you in killing an elk. Grab a cup of coffee and read this 223 for deer, bear, elk, moose. Then come back and let us know how a magnum is going to help you.

 

[Antares]

I really don't like breaks much myself, I like my eardrums.

Nobody should be doing any shooting without ear pro. Do you want hearing loss? Because that's how you get hearing loss.

I shot a deer last weekend with my suppressed .308...I still put my ear plugs in first.

 

[davsco]

got two elk last october with my tikka 300wsm, 200 & 400 yds have it in a mesa precision altitude stock to get a nice comb/cheekpiece, and had the barrel threaded for a hellfire brake. just about no recoil so easy to practice from the bench etc. def wear earpro, with or without a brake.

just bought a tikka 6.5 creed and a proof carbon prefit barrel in 6.5 creed, going to drop that in a mesa precision altitude stock. personally after seeing elk take solid hits from the wsm, i don't plan on using this for elk but for local whitetail.

also have a proof carbon prefit in 6.5 prc on a bighorn tl3 action, in a krg bravo stock/chassis. about 2# heavier than my tikka wsm so this won't be a carrying around rifle.

just giving the op some options. ima lefty so these give me some good options that most pure factory rifles don't.

 

[Refund]

No, it’s about being able to shoot enough volume to gain skill. It is easy to shoot 200 rounds in a day at the range practicing with a 223. You will not do so with anything that recoils more. You lack skill and knowledge and you need range time to gain that. Even the recoil of a light 6.5 CM is too much for most for volume practice,



You’re going down a rabbit hole with this. Both your 308 and 6.5 have no issues going through a shoulder (scapula) at 400 yards… or at 800



Ft-lbs of energy is not a wounding mechanism. It’s worthless as a determiner of killing ability. The 6.5 is way more than enough for bull elk at well past your stated range. Pick a good bullet, put it into the chest and you have a dead elk.


With what you’ve written, a magnum will hurt you, not help you in killing an elk. Grab a cup of coffee and read this 223 for deer, bear, elk, moose. Then come back and let us know how a magnum is going to help you.

Seems simple enough! Perhaps I'll I grab a used or decent .223 and slowly start to aquire some reloading supplies instead of getting a rifle in a magnum caliber.

Most of the research I've done, everybody seems to love to associate fps, ke, foot lbs, etc. to lethality.

The .223 thread was a real trip.. there is such an enormous well of knowledge and information in this forum. There was one picture of a white tail that had a wound channel that looked like a fist could fit through. I've seen less results from shooting one with a .50 muzzleloader. There's a few angry people in that thread too lol..

Nobody should be doing any shooting without ear pro. Do you want hearing loss? Because that's how you get hearing loss.

I shot a deer last weekend with my suppressed .308...I still put my ear plugs in first.

I've always worn ears in hunting scenarios. I understand the purpose they serve and would likely use one if I purchased a rifle with a heavy recoiling caliber but I still think they're loud.

 

[JakeSCH]

I went through the exact same thing last year, I ended up going with 300 WM with the CA Mesa Ti over the Ridgeline. It shoots half moa with my handloads.

Buy ammo first.... then rifle.

+1, sadly that is our current state of affairs if you don't reload. Drive around to local gun stores, buy the ammo that is available and order the corresponding rifle on eurooptic.

 

[Lawnboi]

I did the same you want to do and agree a magnum is the opposite of what you need. Take that money and buy reloading supplies, the most reliable scope you can afford and a suppressor. Then go shoot.

I no longer own a magnum rifle. Maybe one day I’ll get another when and if I ever feel the need to shoot beyond the capabilities of my current rifles.

 

[JW7]

7mm Rem Mag in a decent rifle under $1000, buy good glass, and learn to reload= tack driver