Scope selection help

[redneckbmxer24]

I’m not a vortex user but I tend to agree about certain scopes. So many people are using scopes in matches that get knocked around, slammed into barricades, bags, etc yet these same scopes are taboo here.

Yep and the majority of the optics in the top 10 at pretty much any given match are a Vortex Razor. The optics get absolutely thrashed in a season and they work.

But they're bad because of one persons review that members here who have ZERO experience with a razor will bring up first thing any time anything is mentioned about any vortex. I'm not a Vortex fanboy by any means, I think the majority of their products are junk and as a retail exec I don't necessarily agree with their business model, but they do make some good shit in the Razor line. Are they alpha tier optics? No, and neither are SWFA, Trijicon or NF that get touted here as the best things on earth, but they're excellent reliable optics and for the models like the LHT they really don't have any direct competition.

I had a conversation with a guy pretty high up at Vortex that I've met at matches and is a very straight forward guy about the LHT because I was generally curious. When I asked about the review in question he laughed and said the optic passed all of their tests including their impact tests and collimation and that there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. I asked what the return rate was on the LHT line and he said "very low" and that almost all of the RMA's are for illumination. I asked how many have been sold and he said "thousands".

So yeah, if they had zero retention issues it would be a known issue, widespread, and the majority of returns wouldn't be for illumination issues.

 

[Lingcod907]

Yep and the majority of the optics in the top 10 at pretty much any given match are a Vortex Razor. The optics get absolutely thrashed in a season and they work.

But they're bad because of one persons review that members here who have ZERO experience with a razor will bring up first thing any time anything is mentioned about any vortex. I'm not a Vortex fanboy by any means, I think the majority of their products are junk and as a retail exec I don't necessarily agree with their business model, but they do make some good shit in the Razor line. Are they alpha tier optics? No, and neither are SWFA, Trijicon or NF that get touted here as the best things on earth, but they're excellent reliable optics and for the models like the LHT they really don't have any direct competition.

I had a conversation with a guy pretty high up at Vortex that I've met at matches and is a very straight forward guy about the LHT because I was generally curious. When I asked about the review in question he laughed and said the optic passed all of their tests including their impact tests and collimation and that there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. I asked what the return rate was on the LHT line and he said "very low" and that almost all of the RMA's are for illumination. I asked how many have been sold and he said "thousands".

So yeah, if they had zero retention issues it would be a known issue, widespread, and the majority of returns wouldn't be for illumination issues.

I agree with you they are not in line with swarovski or other top line optics. I consider them tier 2 level.

LHT is so light and help overall with the rifle weight.


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[redneckbmxer24]

I agree with you they are not in line with swarovski or other top line optics. I consider them tier 2 level.

LHT is so light and help overall with the rifle weight.


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Some Swaro models have top tier glass quality, but overall their riflescopes are not alpha tier category. They pretty much fall in line with NF, Leupold VX5/6 MK5, Vortex Razor, Kahles, etc overall. True alpha tier optics is a small category and basically consists of S&B, TT, and ZCO.

 

[Flyjunky]

Yep and the majority of the optics in the top 10 at pretty much any given match are a Vortex Razor. The optics get absolutely thrashed in a season and they work.

But they're bad because of one persons review that members here who have ZERO experience with a razor will bring up first thing any time anything is mentioned about any vortex. I'm not a Vortex fanboy by any means, I think the majority of their products are junk and as a retail exec I don't necessarily agree with their business model, but they do make some good shit in the Razor line. Are they alpha tier optics? No, and neither are SWFA, Trijicon or NF that get touted here as the best things on earth, but they're excellent reliable optics and for the models like the LHT they really don't have any direct competition.

I had a conversation with a guy pretty high up at Vortex that I've met at matches and is a very straight forward guy about the LHT because I was generally curious. When I asked about the review in question he laughed and said the optic passed all of their tests including their impact tests and collimation and that there was absolutely nothing wrong with it. I asked what the return rate was on the LHT line and he said "very low" and that almost all of the RMA's are for illumination. I asked how many have been sold and he said "thousands".

So yeah, if they had zero retention issues it would be a known issue, widespread, and the majority of returns wouldn't be for illumination issues.

The past 2 years the #1 and #2 most used scopes in PRS are razor 4.5-27 and mk 5 5-25. I don’t use either one of those but if people who get paid to shoot trust them, well?

Some will say they get babied but I have two friends who shoot a lot of matches and their scopes look like shit after a year from all the knocks and abuse.

I’m not saying the tests that are done here aren’t worth merit because I based my last purchase off what Form found but I also think most stuff touted on these forums are blown out of proportion.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

The 4.5-22 ffp razor lht is a good option. I sold mine and went with a trijicon tenmile. But if you are married to vortex, one of the lhts or the viper PSTs would work. I have a 5-25 pst on a 223 varmint gun. Love it for that. My 15 yr old son has a 6-24 pst on his 223 varmint gun. Also good. He has a 4-16 hst on his 6.5 cm.

I think vortex has its place, I know a lot of people hate on them, but as mentioned above, I own 3. None of my serious hunting rifles wear Vortex. I have 3 that fall into that category and 2 wear Nightforce and 1 has a Trijicon tenmile.

 

[sndmn11]

So yeah, if they had zero retention issues it would be a known issue, widespread, and the majority of returns wouldn't be for illumination issues.

I have not shot in a competition, nor have I gotten my hands on a Razor for testing. I also don't care a whole lot what you, or someone I don't know from Adam, or even Adam himself use on their rifle. I do enjoy testing theories though, it is fun for me.

All of the schedules for rifle competitions I have seen include morning zeroing of rifles. What is the reasoning for that?

 

[redneckbmxer24]

I have not shot in a competition, nor have I gotten my hands on a Razor for testing. I also don't care a whole lot what you, or someone I don't know from Adam, or even Adam himself use on their rifle. I do enjoy testing theories though, it is fun for me.

All of the schedules for rifle competitions I have seen include morning zeroing of rifles. What is the reasoning for that?

I shot dozens of PRS matches and other field style matches and the only one I ever attended that allowed a zero was a 1 day Pro/Am match and that's only so the amateurs (mostly with insufficient gear and experience) could get acquainted with their gear and the process a little and at least make sure their rifle was zero'd at 100 yards. A large majority of them had low end Athlons and Vortex's and yes there were a lot of issues. My am was chasing his tail all day with his POS Athlon. That match was mostly to help new shooters get into the sport and was a really cool match put on by PVA. PRS level pro am matches like the GAP grind and such are run like regular PRS matches though.

Every other PRS match I've ever attended has had a cold range on the mornings and I've seen MD's not even allow people to confirm zero plenty that were having issues. Mornings consist of a safety brief and squads go to their first assigned stage and start shooting. Next day you start at whatever stage you're assigned to the next day. Most matches have a range day the day before the match that you usually have to pay for and most of the shooters are there at the longer ranges confirming dope and scoping out the range, not confirming zero at 100 yards.

 

[Sdvldog1371]

6.5 and for hunting. Adjustable and Second focal point with MOAD.


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SFP with adjustable parallax is a

6.5 and for hunting. Adjustable and Second focal point with MOAD.


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What kind of price point are you considering and what does your typical hunting scenario look like? 50-100 yds heavily wooded, 300+ yds pretty open?

 

[Lingcod907]

Open country and sometimes with trees.
It can vary on shots. 50-450 yards.


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[Sdvldog1371]

If you want to stick with vortex you're probably going to want to take a look at either the crossfire II or the viper PA. Hope that helps.

 

[matpc1]

There's at least a few optics companies out there that aren't Vortex and have the same "Vortex warrenty".

 

[Latebloomer]

I went to Vortex on several scopes. I wish I had stayed with leupold. It's not necessarily that they have completely failed me, I just feel like my zero on my vortex scopes sometimes walks juuust little on me. Also sometimes when re-zeroing, adjustments aren't as precise and takes more rounds. Pisses me off because my reloads take time and I'm confident in my shooting ability, I know it's the damn accuracy of the knobs/reticle. My advice is shell out a little more money for a little less magnification and you get a more quality scope (zeroing/glass/reliability). Just my ten cents. Obviously Swaro, Nightforce, etc are outstanding.

 

[Sdvldog1371]

I own several vortex scopes. Never has 1 let me down for having a zero shift from traveling. I hunt 5 hours from home on some roads that really tear your rig up. Then at the end of my season I drive another 6+ hours to the next state over and hunt a couple weeks. With as much driving and getting beaten around as those scopes see I've never had a zero shift. I took a good tumble this year and checked zero and it was still on. Then took a REAL good tumble and smashed the crap out of the objective. Had to switch to the backup rifle and send the scope out for replacement. I'm not going to blow S&B, Tangent Theta or ZCO money on a scope that I will surely wreck some day. If one day those companies cover damage from accidents I will consider them, until then Vortex gets my money.

 

[ljalberta]

I went to Vortex on several scopes. I wish I had stayed with leupold. It's not necessarily that they have completely failed me, I just feel like my zero on my vortex scopes sometimes walks juuust little on me. Also sometimes when re-zeroing, adjustments aren't as precise and takes more rounds. Pisses me off because my reloads take time and I'm confident in my shooting ability, I know it's the damn accuracy of the knobs/reticle. My advice is shell out a little more money for a little less magnification and you get a more quality scope (zeroing/glass/reliability). Just my ten cents. Obviously Swaro, Nightforce, etc are outstanding.

Check out the optics testing in the long range hunting sub forum. I think you’ll find some helpful information. There’s some cheaper options (SWFA) that can generally provide the reliability you’re looking for.

 

[Latebloomer]

Check out the optics testing in the long range hunting sub forum. I think you’ll find some helpful information. There’s some cheaper options (SWFA) that can generally provide the reliability you’re looking for.

Appreciate that. I’ve used SWFA and had a fixed powered on my 308. Though I felt it was a solid scope, I had a little more to be desired from the glass and prefer lower profile turrets on hunting rigs. That could have possibly changed though because this was over a decade ago.

 

[DC10Tyler*]

I am one of those average shooters. For me I'm not going to shoot at anything over 300 yards. With my Diamond back Vortex the obvious choice is get closer to the target. I'm not tracking threw a lot of much her in Texas.

 

[rootacres]

I have question. I won a creedmor rifle and looking to put a vortex scope on it. I have a razor 3-15X42 on my .243 and 6-18X44 AO crossfire on my .300. So now looking to see what would be a good match for the creedmor. I like vortex and their customers service. They have never let me down with their warranty so far and that’s why I want to pick another vortex scope. Plus I can get a discount on expert voice
Thank for the help.


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Man mentioning Vortex in any positive way on here will get some guys blood to boil.

I too have had very good luck with Vortex. From crossfires to razors I’ve been happy. Fell on a razor on a hunt, held zero. Legit fell out of a treestand with a crossfire, held zero.

I would take a look at the LHT if you plan to hunt with the creed. If it’s just a range gun some of the other razors may be better. I did upgrade from my LHT to a Mark 5. Sold my LHT to my brother, he killed a good bull this fall using it. The only warranty I’ve had to use thus far was on a Zeiss.

 

[codybrown]

Take a look at what Meopta has to offer. They've really stepped their game up the past couple of years and bring a lot to the table. I've picked up a number of their new scopes and have had great success with them.