Scope mounting loctite or not?

[sndmn11]

Orange Threadlockers Archives - Permatex

www.permatex.com

 

[Billy Goat]

Damnit, can we just let this die.



I'd start with the memes, but they just don't hit as hard when it's page 16.


I didn't draw my tags either.

 

[swavescatter]

Get the blue loctite out - this thread is gonna be locked.

 

[MEdude]

One last question here. If you’re account gets deleted off Rokslide, Is that the hunting world’s equivalent of getting “canceled” off the whole internet?

 

[CampSmith]

You sure do talk about other guys balloon knots a lot. Its ok frank cesaro. We dont judge here. Everyone is welcome.

Hey guys like u yes I most definitely do. A Keyboard warrior sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. I was taught something very young mind you're f'in business if it has nothing to do with you. But that's the problem with your generation. Most of you are way too soft cause of it. Talking shit behind the saftey of a keyboard. Tread lightly son. Youre heading down a slippery slope. You might not like what you find on the other end.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Hey guys like u yes I most definitely do. A Keyboard warrior sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. I was taught something very young mind you're f'in business if it has nothing to do with you. But that's the problem with your generation. Most of you are way too soft cause of it. Talking shit behind the saftey of a keyboard. Tread lightly son. Youre heading down a slippery slope. You might not like what you find on the other end.

You don’t even know how old anyone here is. Lol. Sweet threat though, to a solid contributing member here.

You don’t know what you don’t know. Your blind assumptions, general terrible advice, and constant “balloon knot” nonsense has gone all the way overboard at this point.

 

[CampSmith]

One last question here. If you’re account gets deleted off Rokslide, Is that the hunting world’s equivalent of getting “canceled” off the whole internet?

View attachment 702860

No not really only liberal cry babies use cancel culture when someone has an opinion other than there's. It's really amusing here. I jumped on another post and actually helped a young man with a real problem. When others were just bashing the brand of scope he used. All of this wisdom here and I helped him with one reply. Don't worry the powers that be here know what really went on here. I'll leave it at that. Men don't act this way little boys do. Have fun play nice.

 

[Bearwhisky]

Is there any way to have a poll on here so we can vote on which member is acting like a “little boy”?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[fngTony]

Let’s keep this about the original topic and not each other.

 

[Reburn]

Hey guys like u yes I most definitely do. A Keyboard warrior sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. I was taught something very young mind you're f'in business if it has nothing to do with you. But that's the problem with your generation. Most of you are way too soft cause of it. Talking shit behind the saftey of a keyboard. Tread lightly son. Youre heading down a slippery slope. You might not like what you find on the other end.

Heck this is an open forum and I was giving my experience that loctite is needed for zero retention.

Based on your advice here I'm surprised anyone was able to teach you anything. The lesson not to stick your nose where it doesnt belong clearly didnt stick with you either since you are here as well.

I probably need a tuning up. I doubt you will be the one to give it to me though.

 

[magtech]

No loctite. Torqued to spec, then checked ring torque once a week after installing.

Installed an xrs2 about 3 years ago. Hunted probably 30 days with the rifle in all weather shot 700 ish rounds over the warmer months... fell off a counter while installing a light and landed on the rifle (It was laying on the plastic case). It still shoots the same at 500.

Also lost the gun off the back of a sxs and it retained zero.

But i dont run ultralight gear. egw bases and arc m10/mbrace rings properly torque.

Would loctite hurt, no. Does it matter with quality mounting equipment and proper torque... doubtful.

 

[Drenalin]

No loctite. Torqued to spec, then checked ring torque once a week after installing.

Installed an xrs2 about 3 years ago. Hunted probably 30 days with the rifle in all weather shot 700 ish rounds over the warmer months... fell off a counter while installing a light and landed on the rifle (It was laying on the plastic case). It still shoots the same at 500.

Also lost the gun off the back of a sxs and it retained zero.

But i dont run ultralight gear. egw bases and arc m10/mbrace rings properly torque.

Would loctite hurt, no. Does it matter with quality mounting equipment and proper torque... doubtful.

Serious question: wouldn’t thread locker alleviate the need to check ring torque weekly? What makes the continual minor inconvenience of checking ring torque constantly more acceptable than the one time minor inconvenience of applying thread locker? Straight question, I’m just trying to follow the logic, not drag you into some crazy ass argument.

 

[magtech]

Serious question: wouldn’t thread locker alleviate the need to check ring torque weekly? What makes the continual minor inconvenience of checking ring torque constantly more acceptable than the one time minor inconvenience of applying thread locker? Straight question, I’m just trying to follow the logic, not drag you into some crazy ass argument.

I just checked it once after i did it to be like "yup, nothing changed" then i never did it again.

 

[RyanT26]

Hey guys like u yes I most definitely do. A Keyboard warrior sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. I was taught something very young mind you're f'in business if it has nothing to do with you. But that's the problem with your generation. Most of you are way too soft cause of it. Talking shit behind the saftey of a keyboard. Tread lightly son. Youre heading down a slippery slope. You might not like what you find on the other end.

SUCK IT ole son. Do you shoot a .270 and do you have a cabin with thousands of mounts?

Yes to loctite and screw heads marked with nail polish or something for a witness mark.

 

[Drenalin]

I just checked it once after i did it to be like "yup, nothing changed" then i never did it again.

10-4, I misunderstood what you said. Thanks.

 

[Sandstrom]

Two scopes that I bought used that had their rings come loose before I got them.

I have also had iron sights on two different pistols come loose that are now loctited.

Ryan

 

[Macintosh]

I received a response from Talley manufacturing as well. My question was WHY they recommend against loctite, if it was a scope functional issue or if it was something else.

Talley: "we do this because generally people do not use the product as directed. If a little works, a lot must be better. I do not have a problem with proper usage"

Me: TY. Am I correct in understanding that the amount of loctite makes a difference? If so, what is the problem that using too much causes?

Talley: "Gums up the mounts and makes a mess. I cannot do exchanges once loctite is applied"

Once again, the reason cited for recommending agsint it--even after prodding--is not functional, it's more to do with customer service. Which is a big deal if your company spends a lot of time and energy saving customers from themselves, but its not the same as being an actual problem functionally.

I am still concluding that using loctite is safer than not using loctite (if you're someone the rings never come loose on you're no worse off, but if you happen to become someone for whom rings decide to loosen, you're still covered), and if the only reason any of these companies have to recommend agsint it is because it gums up screws, I'm 150% totally OK with cleaning my screws and buying a new set of screws once in a while if needed.

 

[Shortschaf]

I received a response from Talley manufacturing as well. My question was WHY they recommend against loctite, if it was a scope functional issue or if it was something else.

Talley: "we do this because generally people do not use the product as directed. If a little works, a lot must be better. I do not have a problem with proper usage"

Me: TY. Am I correct in understanding that the amount of loctite makes a difference? If so, what is the problem that using too much causes?

Talley: "Gums up the mounts and makes a mess. I cannot do exchanges once loctite is applied"

Once again, the reason cited for recommending agsint it--even after prodding--is not functional, it's more to do with customer service. Which is a big deal if your company spends a lot of time and energy saving customers from themselves, but its not the same as being an actual problem functionally.

I am still concluding that using loctite is safer than not using loctite (if you're someone the rings never come loose on you're no worse off, but if you happen to become someone for whom rings decide to loosen, you're still covered), and if the only reason any of these companies have to recommend agsint it is because it gums up screws, I'm 150% totally OK with cleaning my screws and buying a new set of screws once in a while if needed.

End thread

 

[JohnDough]

So, I did a deep dive on this years ago, asking a ton of industry professionals from the .mil side of the house what they did and why.

Nightforce: Sure, Blue loctite is fine. Torque to 25 in-lb like it says. We don't know if engineering said wet or dry or whatever, but we don't care, this thing is a hoss!--Paraphrased, regarding Unimount and NXS 1-4 at the time. (I did this, and when I removed the scope after years of use, ZERO ring marks, also it tracked true and was fine.)

Vortex: Loctite is bad in that it increases compression on the tubes. Reduce torque by 25% or don't use it. We have had scopes damaged by the use of loctite. (I have never owned Vortex)

Hakan Spuhr: We ship our screws waxed. People who strip this off and torque dry can have issues. If you clean them with acetone, alcohol, etc then use oil or loctite. DO NOT torque a dry screw for my mount or any other mount, especially if the base metal is aluminum, as most of the torque goes into drag/friction and not clamping. (I have never owned a Spuhr mount, but have spoken with Hakan on this very topic.)

KAC: A small bit of oil, just a sheen, wiped on the threads. Clean and sheen. Not dripping, not dry. (I have never owned a KAC scope mount).

Leupold: We will ship you screws with nylok patches on them with our ISMS mounts so you can stop quibbling about it. Torque it to 28 in-lb, fam! (Although when I did this, I got flakes of black stuff in the tube of my MK6, which I am suspicious could be flaking ano from tube compression. I have nothing to back that with, and Leupold cleaned it out in 3-4 weeks for me, saying nothing about the matter).

Geissele: The screws come lightly oiled and are meant to be de-greased with 222 added, or installed as they come, with light machine oil, to 18 in-lb. (When I installed a K16i in a G SuperPrecision mount using these values, it mocked up with several thousandths clearance on both sides dry at 18 in-lb), then I added loctite and the ring halves did indeed go solid at about 15-16 in-lb. as measured by feeler gauges. K16i's have thing, soft tubes, though, but this IS personal proof witnessed that Loctite does allow for increased compression vs dry, clean threads, and whether this is a good or bad thing depends on the equipment used.)

Reptilia: We recommend dry, clean screws. Regarding their AUS mounts. That said, the instructions also list 222 as "optional, not needed" and no separate torque spec is offered for if it IS used, as Vortex does (11 vs 18 in-lb) on the Gen 3 razor. I have further inquired for clarification.

That said...what do I do?

I de-grease the screws and clean them with cloth so as to remove gunk from the threads. I let them dry so they are spotless. I then apply a light sheen of oil, and evenly and properly torque down the ring cap screws in X pattern by angle, so that clamping forces/compression remains equal. I will end up with no worse than a 0.002" delta between all points on the rings on either side. I also make sure nothing "goes solid", because THIS is what will cause slippage (as well as under torque). The screws have constant tension on them from both a little bit of thread stretch, and mainly scope tube compression rebound. It makes the threads behave like Helicoils, and this is why you do not need to use a thread locker. The slight sheen of oil is important so that all fasteners have equal compression from equal axial force. That's all torque measured with your wrench is, is the measure of axial force required to overcome drag. I do make sure that my scopes have overlap with the mount specs. For example, I use Nightforce scopes and Reptilia AUS mounts. Reptilia says 15 in-lb, Nightforce says 25 in-lb max (they used to say 15, but changed it a couple decades ago because people complained "WiLl It HolD!?" and they tested, determined 25 was safe for their product, and changed the recommendation to stop the questions, lol! No scope ever slipped in their testing even on .50 BMG at 15 in-lb. Another thing I will do is use acetone to chemically de-grease the mounting surface of the scope tube and inner rings. I leave this as such, bone dry. I will also lightly oil the 1913 section of rail that the mount clamps to, on my AR's. This comes from conversations with Hakan Spuhr, which he has publicly stated as well and you can Google in your free time.

 

[Castle Rock]

OK