Schmidt & Bender Reliability

[stevevan]

I've seen lots of tests on various rifle scopes but I've yet to see a review on Schmidt & Bender, Specifically the Zenith and Klassik series with the BDC/ASV elevation turret option. If anyone knows of such reviews please direct me to where I can find them. Just as important, or even more so, if you own and use either of these models please give me your critique. Your help is deeply appreciated. Thank You.

 

[eamyrick]

I have been using the 3-12x42 Klassik for two years. One of the main reasons I switched was experiencing wondering zeros with lighter scopes from other brands in the past. I’m in Texas and the amount of banging around on a side by side and in and out of the truck seemed to have an effect on other brands (maybe 1/2-1.5 moa unaccounted for shifts). After two years with the 3-12 S&B I have observed no issues with zero shift. I have the turret which S&B installed and it appears to dial appropriately and come back to zero though I have done no tall target testing on the setup.

 

[muskysaloon]

I can't speak to the newer models, but I bought a Schmidt and Bender 3x12x42 back in 1999 for my 7mm STW. It has been flawless. I haven't remounted it in 20 years and it still held its zero this year when I finally went back out west after a 20 year layoff. Optically amazing and has been super durable.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

They’re well thought of in the UK, only real issue I know of with the Klassik is that they suffer from tunnelling at lower mag ranges.
Not sure about the Zenith though.

 

[kcormack]

Schmidt and Bender Klassik 8x56mm Field Eval

The S&B Klassik is Schmidt’s basic line of hunting scopes. Historically they have generally worked without much fuss for how most hunting scopes are used. This one is the fixed power 8x56mm made in Hungary model. According to S&B there are no differences other than country of manufacture...

rokslide.com

 

[Macintosh]

I’ve had a 3-12x42 klassik for a bit over a year now. I have a few areas where Id change it a bit if I could, but overall its a great scope and I would buy one again if I were in the market.

Likes:
Solid reputation for reliability—above drop test and some relevant PM’s, a few friends, lots of online research all pointed toward it being a pretty darn reliable scope. Plus my own “united airlines baggage test”, in addition to a year of slipping up and down snow covered mountains (including one very hard fall where I went ass over teakettle, fully airborne, and landed HARD, full body weight onto the rifle), and zero has not shifted at all—not even one click. Ive checked multiple times.
Glass is very, very good. No one ever complains about S&B glass. I have not noticed the tunneling a few others talked about. Depth of field is fantastic, I had parallax changed to 225 yards (from 100) when I had turret installed, but I really dont feel limited by the fixed parallax on this scope within its range limitations.
Reticle selection I like. I have p3l, which is a bit fine for my taste here in the northeast, but by far one of my favorite ffp hunting reticles I have personally seen. I like that it's essentially a duplex, with the added bonus that I can use the reticle for holds at any magnification if I don't want to dial for any reason.
Turret—I just had the bdc turret installed. Zeroing and setting the turret is easier than just about any turret I have ever seen. From a ease and convenience of use standpoint its great. I have not done a tall target with it—I will at some point—but so far have found the adjustments very precise and consistent when zeroing and at the ranges Ive shot it (mostly 300 and in)

“meh”
Turret rotation is opposite direction what Im used to from all other brands Ive used.
Magnification ring turns opposite direction compared to every other scope Ive ever used.
The mag ring travels so far (from about 7:00 all the way to 5:00) that it prevents using a throw lever to avoid hitting the bolt. Because of this, for me it requires 2 hand movements to go from low to high, and if you are behind the gun its hard to do all at once in one movement.
Illumination is too dim for daylight/dusk use until you get to about setting 5 or higher. Its made for night hunting. No off setting in between brightness levels. There is a considerable halo at higher brightness levels and some bleed at higher brightness levels. Good choice for just twilight/dark illumination, not a good choice if you're looking for "daylight bright" illumination.

Dislikes
The bdc turret is limited to 3.2mils of travel. (per below posts the 4-16 also uses the same turret which limits travel to 3.2mils on a .1mil/click scope. Scopes with .05mil/click will be less travel). A rail has NO effect on this, as it is the turret itself, not the total travel in the erector, that limits this. Depending on cartridge that allows me to dial to 450-550 yards, maybe a bit more with a very flat shooting cartridge. My .270 win with factory 129lrx gets to about 550. Im not shooting critters past that range anyway so for me its a non-issue, but for others that's a deal-breaker.

Ultimately I have some clear gripes, but on the whole am very happy with it and Im not sure what other scope in that size and price range I would buy if I did it again. Happy to answer any specific questions.

Fwiw, mine was purchased new in december of 2021, and is labeled as made in Germany. Some models of Klassik are made in hungary. I have been told the manufacturing facilities are “the same” but dont know anything more than that.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Never used either of those but I’ve had a couple dozen PMII models over the last 15-20 years and they are super solid. Until Tangent Theta came along they were the very top of top tier.

 

[Schaaf]

@Macintosh the 4-16 actually has half the adjustment range. Still labeled in 3.2 but it’s in .05 mil clicks. So you get 1.6 mils of adjustment with the exposed turret.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

@Macintosh the 4-16 actually has half the adjustment range. Still labeled in 3.2 but it’s in .05 mil clicks. So you get 1.6 mils of adjustment with the exposed turret.

Pretty sure that’s incorrect and there’s clicks in between the hash marks. I can text Jerry at S&B and ask him though.

 

[Macintosh]

I know at least some of the 4-16’s are advertised as having .1mil clicks. Sounds like its the same turret though, so at least on a .1mil version the useable adjustment range would be the same. I guess the question is if a scope with half-value adjustments simply has a click in between each value on the turret. If so, I think the relatively small adjustment range of 3.2 mils, even though it might be a hard sell, is perfectly adequate for 90+% of the hunters out there.

Do the zenith scopes and others utilaze the same type of turrets as the classic? I see on the Schmidt & Bender website they are different turrets, but it’s unclear if the adjustment range works the same way. The only other S&B scopes Ive seen in person have been PMII’s which had a turret more like the “standard” dial turrets Im more accustomed to seeing.

 

[Macintosh]

I do find the companies communication on these turrets to be pretty opaque and very difficult to understand. It seems half the reason they aren’t more popular is the website communication/translation from German is so difficult. I guess it’s a great thing they focus more on the engineering than on the marketing. If that were reversed, they’d probably be more like everyone else!

 

[sacklunch]

Parallax broke on my PMII, free shipping to and from and they replaced the entire internals free of charge. Hadn't heard of really ANY issues with that optic until mine...my situation was certainly a one off.

 

[Schaaf]

Pretty sure that’s incorrect and there’s clicks in between the hash marks. I can text Jerry at S&B and ask him though.

I’m correct. I used a 4-16 Klassik BDC for 3 years.

 

[Schaaf]

Not all 4-16s have the .05 clicks. I’m guessing if you had a standard 4-16 and sent it in to get a turret added, then it would be in .1 clicks.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

Yes, there were some 4-16's with .05 and some with .1

For Klassic's specifically, I use a 6x42 and 3-12x42 with the BDC dial and several with standard capped elevation. They have all been perfectly reliable for me. Reliable, good glass, not excessively heavy, and with good hunting reticle choices. Aside from price, they are hard to beat.

 

[TOADER]

S&B are as tough as they come.....buy and use one in confidence!!!

 

[Kimber7man]

Not all 4-16s have the .05 clicks. I’m guessing if you had a standard 4-16 and sent it in to get a turret added, then it would be in .1 clicks.

Yeah, the 4-16 I have has the varmint reticle and is .05 mil clicks.
I have 2 of the 3-12x42 precision hunters and love em. Don’t have to worry about beating on them.

 

[ZAR EC]

Does anyone (@Formidilosus possibly) have any experience with the Ultrashort PMII's? Specifically looking at zero retention. Both the 3-20 and 5-20. Thanks

 

[Formidilosus]

Does anyone (@Formidilosus possibly) have any experience with the Ultrashort PMII's? Specifically looking at zero retention. Both the 3-20 and 5-20. Thanks

Not enough to say anything with any degree of certainty.

 

[MojaveJim]

Have experience with PMII 5x25's, sent one off for a tune-up after 35K + plus rounds. I'd say they are reliable.
If you do have an issue or want a reticle change the US CS is top tier & will take care of you.