SAVING A HUNTERS LIFE

[stoneramhunter]

I have spent many years in the back country hunting sheep and over the years I've become confident in my survival skills. And to that point I like to pass on one tip that may save your life or someone else's.
Of course we all know that we should have basic survival skills when venturing into the back country how to treat a wound or deal with blood loss perhaps hypothermia and dehydration. My tip is that all hunters in the back country should know how to do CPR your hunting partner may have hypothermia or cardiac arrest or or trauma that stopped their heart knowing CPR may save their lives in fact it might be yours whose life is saved. Take a short course and learn it anyone can do it. As a note the survival rate from cardiac arrest is quite low without medical intervention (defribrillator } but a few have been revived using CPR. It just might be enough to save a life maybe even yours . you have nothing to lose

I also have posts under elk and sheep re- tips on hunting in grizzly country

 

[bbags]

I'm under the impression, perhaps wrongly so, that CPR has limited uses in the back country.

In the case of a heart attack, defibrillation seems to be the gold standard, and that CPR is buying you time...measured in minutes, not hours.

In the case of hypothermia or trauma that stops a heart, I'm not sure how effective CPR is at that point.

CPR is a good skill to learn and does have proven value in a drowning situation.

 

[stoneramhunter]

I'm under the impression, perhaps wrongly so, that CPR has limited uses in the back country.

In the case of a heart attack, defibrillation seems to be the gold standard, and that CPR is buying you time...measured in minutes, not hours.

In the case of hypothermia or trauma that stops a heart, I'm not sure how effective CPR is at that point.

CPR is a good skill to learn and does have proven value in a drowning situation.c

Hypothermia- CPR is used and can last up to 6 hrs to keep someone alive and survive neurologically intact following hypothermic cardiac arrest

hypothermia treatment includes cpr if the person is not breathing

you are correct re Heart attack I will correct i should have said cardiac arrest and the survival rate is very low but in a few cases it has been successful its basically a last chance in the mountains. same with trauma.
thanks for the correction

 

[slvrslngr]

So, are you going to pack a defibrillator into the backcountry? Me neither. While CPR may have low success by itself, it at least gives the victim a chance. Yes, learn CPR, and some first aid. Hopefully you never need to use it.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I'm under the impression, perhaps wrongly so, that CPR has limited uses in the back country.

In the case of a heart attack, defibrillation seems to be the gold standard, and that CPR is buying you time...measured in minutes, not hours.

In the case of hypothermia or trauma that stops a heart, I'm not sure how effective CPR is at that point.

CPR is a good skill to learn and does have proven value in a drowning situation.

You are correct. If medics are minutes out and you are doing CPR you thats one thing. Other than that you arent going to do CPR for days on end and you arent going to be able to move somebody while doing CPR unless you have a backboard and a lucas device.

I have read stories about a few doctors that were on a fly in fishing trip, one of their buddies had some heart issue and 2 other doctors did CPR on him for a couple of days taking turns and managed to do so until the plane came back....I don't know though, I call bullshit. DOing CPR will wear you out pretty fast.

If you want to learn some wilderness medicine, learn to splint fractures, stop bleeding and lung punctures or something.

 

[Laramie]

If my heart stops beating in the back country on a hunt, I would prefer to be left alone. Far worse endings out there imo.

 

[stoneramhunter]

You are correct. If medics are minutes out and you are doing CPR you thats one thing. Other than that you arent going to do CPR for days on end and you arent going to be able to move somebody while doing CPR unless you have a backboard and a lucas device.

I have read stories about a few doctors that were on a fly in fishing trip, one of their buddies had some heart issue and 2 other doctors did CPR on him for a couple of days taking turns and managed to do so until the plane came back....I don't know though, I call bullshit. DOing CPR will wear you out pretty fast.

If you want to learn some wilderness medicine, learn to splint fractures, stop bleeding and lung punctures or something.

hi wasnt suggesting to do cpr for days on end just saying that with hypothermic cardiac arrest that cpr is used and successfull and to cardia arrest from other conditions the outocme is poor but if in the slim chance you can start a heart why not. i agree with wilderness medicine you mention but to dismiss cpr im not so sure thats advisable

 

[BDRam16]

So I am a paramedic and I will never disagree with someone learning CPR. It can definitely save a life some day. However, if we are going to talk about a class that you can take to help with backcountry life saving skills, I would definitely suggest a “stop the bleed” class. Carry a tourniquet and some gauze. Doesn’t add much weight and can definitely save a life. Belts and improvised devices DO NOT WORK. A CAT tourniquet by NAR should be a must have for your back country kit.

 

[30338]

Don't know CPR and not a paramedic. Would it help in the event of a lightning strike that stops someone's heart?

 

[Stillkickin]

I agree and am going to look up and attend a local CPR class and a first aid class ASAP.

I would feel awful just standing by if there was a chance to help someone.

 

[BDRam16]

Don't know CPR and not a paramedic. Would it help in the event of a lightning strike that stops someone's heart?

That answer can vary greatly depending on the situation. I would assume that if it is a survivable lightning strike where the person has lost consciousness but is not obviously deceased, that their heart has not yet stopped but is in some kind of dysthymia such as v-tach or v-fib. In this case, what will ultimately save their life is rapid defibrillation. However, there are rare cases when CPR alone has rescusitated people. But the problem is again, that’s not going to last long. If they went into some kind of pulseless activity in the back country your prognosis will not be good.

Also, there’s also a huge misconception about defibrillation from TV and movies. If someone is “flatlined” on the monitor ie. asystole, shocking them will do absolutely nothing. A shock does not start your heart. It actually briefly stops it. The hope is that your heart resets itself and kicks back into a normal rhythm. Basically like unplugging your computer and plugging it back in. Hit your spouse with that one next time a stupid ER show is on tv lol.

 

[Lawnboi]

Everyone should know CPR. But it’s use realistically in the backcountry is not really needed. Personally, If I lost a pulse in the backcountry, let me go.

Chances of survival with an ambulance close is low. Chance of survival for 1 hour plus, with no pharmacology or defibrillation, plus moving the person, is pretty much impossible. Doing high quality compressions is hard. Providing ventilations long term without an advanced airway can end in disaster. I don’t see anyone doing compressions for 6 hours straight. Even if you had 2, 3 guys.

I don’t mean to be the bearer of bad news but CPR is about the last skill you need to stay or keep someone alive in the backcountry.

That said I think everyone should know CPR for back home. Looking back at saves I have had, one common factor is almost always CPR was initiated prior to EMS arrival and shortly after arrest.

 

[TheGDog]

Meh.. of potential use if not solo.

Of bigger use might be:
Explaining to people the general rundown on what NOT to do after a Trauma.
The need to remain calm in order to rapidly self-assess. (EDIT: and recognizing that you have to make decisions real damn fast sometimes before you pass-out otherwise you're screwed!)
How to very quickly apply combat tourniquet,
How to possibly splint yourself.
Making decisions on what to ditch from your pack in case of need to limp back out.
Discussion of useful meds to have with you. What to be cautious of when taking them in response to this or that Trauma that's occurred.

A simple example might be.. I was taught from dirtbikes that if you have a bad fall, you DON'T just get up right away, you DO get off the trail right away so you don't get run-over by someone else coming along behind you, but... then you take a sec to carefully self-asses. cause like you could have a broken rib and not know it from the shock and then you go and move and it pierces thru your lung and you just screwed yourself royally. That kinda thing.

Recognizing in yourself the signs of shock. Teaching people to think about how they need to think about how much worse of a situation they'll get themselves into if they pass-out from shock while in a standing-up position. I don't even wanna think about that happening on a single-track trail beside a steep cliff!

Y'ever watch the police hit somebody with the Tazer gun while they're trying to run away? Very frequently results in tooth loss, broken noses, broken eye sockets, broken jaws, broken clavicles etc, since they have no control of their limbs and go from standing full up right and haulin ass to falling down without being able to catch themselves with their arms with some extra velocity thrown in for fun. Same would apply if you were trying to push it too hard to get back out and the shock overtakes you and makes you pass-out. That kinda thing.

What to do if you've run out of water. How patience *can* play an important role in your ability to get back outta there.

 

[TDawg]

I would rather know basic first aid and life saving measures and never have to use it, then finding yourself in a situation and not knowing. We are required to maintain certification for work, so I get that for free. I also carry basic first aid and survival gear in my daypack... always.

 

[stoneramhunter]

bdram16 thanks for your comments I agree and i had taken the course "stop the Bleed" awesome to have.

 

[BDRam16]

Ya man no problem. I think a tourniquet is such an over looked piece of hunting gear. We have guns, and broadheads, and knives and go climbing trees and mountains....accidents are bound to happen.

 

[stoneramhunter]

So true re tourniquet a friend of mine opened up his shin with an axe his hunting buddy had taken the course "Stop the Blood) albeit a nasty wound he followed what he learned. stemmed the flow and his quick action calmed my buddy down which was also a good thing especially when its a days ride out to help with the horses .

 

[fwafwow]

So I am a paramedic and I will never disagree with someone learning CPR. It can definitely save a life some day. However, if we are going to talk about a class that you can take to help with backcountry life saving skills, I would definitely suggest a “stop the bleed” class. Carry a tourniquet and some gauze. Doesn’t add much weight and can definitely save a life. Belts and improvised devices DO NOT WORK. A CAT tourniquet by NAR should be a must have for your back country kit.

+1

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I’m an EMT (by hobby) abs my emt friends think this is hilarious.

 

[Marbles]

Learning CPR is good, but not high on the list for the backcountry. As most of our lives are spent in the front country, CPR is a very good skill to learn.

Personally, there are very few times when I would attempt CPR in the back country (front country is different). The primary reason is if asphyxiation lead to the arrest. Here breaths are important, but AHA lay person CPR no longer teaches breaths because it is focused on situations where professional help is close.

Nothing about CPR will reverse causes of traumatic arrest (I can think of one exception, but it is very unlikely in the backcountry). Nothing about CPR will reverse cardiac or metabolic causes of arrest. Nothing about CPR will correct v-fib from an R on T type arrest due to lightening.

CPR could put a hypothermic patient in arrest and someone who is minimally trained in CPR might not realise the profound bradycardia (slow heart rate) of hypothermia does not require compressions.

CPR could be useful to give a group purpose and direction following the loss of a member, but more often than not it will just be performative in the backcountry to make the living feel better. It could also wast valuable time and energy or keep people in an exposed location for no good reason.

For the backcountry, take Wilderness First Aid. If you want more, get Wilderness First Responder. Remember exposure kills most people, so don't be lazy and carry proper clothing and shelter for the conditions and what the conditions could become.