Sacrificing weapon quality for buck/herd quality and opportunity

[270Hunter]

With some state committees proposing open sight centerfire rifles, and then also banning scopes higher than 1x on muzzleloaders and then other state committees proposing to change general rifle season to a general muzzleloader season, stating that it will help the Buck quality and the herd quality, who is willing to set down there rifle and pick up a more “primitive weapon” to hunt deer and potentially bigger bucks more often.

State agencies are trying to do what they can to keep hunter opportunity high while reducing the amount of bucks killed. I believe that by making hunters use more primitive weapons they can achieve both of those objectives. I do think that there should be general rifle tags but I also think that something should change, and tag cuts are not the way to go. Tag cuts have been tried over and over and all they do is take away opportunity from us.

I have hunted deer with all three, archery, muzzleloader and rifle and I love to hunt with all of them. I’m curious what everyone else thinks!

 

[Maxhunter]

This should be entertaining

 

[robby denning]

voted and sub'd!

 

[IDVortex]

Why not just ban rifle hunting and archery all together considering both them are a very advanced hunting system/style.and only allow hunting with bowie knives.

 

[JJ1179]

You’re thinking Bowie knives over blow guns with darts?

 

[180ls1]

Seeing guys pound animals over 500 yards with what is supposed to be a primitive weapon (muzzloader) is an easy place to start in my book.

 

[BuckRut]

It will definitely help the herd quality overall. Will it make a dent in private harboring of animals or hunter crowding? Probably not.

 

[CMF]

Archery/muzzy is our typical strategy. Usually better, easier to draw opportunities. It will definitely help with quality and quanity of animals if other variables stay the same like tag numbers and only weapon type changes.
I would like to see at least 1x scopes allowed or at least allow scopes for youth hunters.

 

[PredatoronthePrairie]

Won't that just increaes the amount of guys doing the ol Kentucky windage hold over leading to an increase in wounding/unrecoved animals?

 

[180ls1]

Won't that just increaes the amount of guys doing the ol Kentucky windage hold over leading to an increase in wounding/unrecoved animals?

I am thinking people who take "hero shots" will continue to do so regardless of weapon/capability so I am not sure there will be an increase.

 

[270Hunter]

Seeing guys pound animals over 500 yards with what is supposed to be a primitive weapon (muzzloader) is an easy place to start in my book.

I agree, and I think Utah DWR has done a good job at addressing that issue by limiting muzzleloaders to open sights, red dots or 1x scopes.

 

[270Hunter]

Won't that just increaes the amount of guys doing the ol Kentucky windage hold over leading to an increase in wounding/unrecoved animals?

I am speaking for myself and for other hunters I know personally and I would say no. People who take unethical shots do so regardless of weapon type so I don’t think switching weapon types or sights will cause an increase of hunters to take unethical shots.

 

[270Hunter]

Archery/muzzy is our typical strategy. Usually better, easier to draw opportunities. It will definitely help with quality and quanity of animals if other variables stay the same like tag numbers and only weapon type changes.
I would like to see at least 1x scopes allowed or at least allow scopes for youth hunters.

Just to clarify do you mean at least allow 1x scopes on muzzleloaders for youth hunters?

I am a huge fan of getting the youth involved so I think this could be a great idea!

 

[270Hunter]

It will definitely help the herd quality overall. Will it make a dent in private harboring of animals or hunter crowding? Probably not.

Do you think it would help with hunter crowding in units where you could only hunt with an open sight muzzleloader or open sight rifle? But then potentially causing hunter crowding in other units from displaced hunters?

 

[sndmn11]

I think it would lead to a bunch of people talking about being crowded due to more hunters in the field for the "more opportunity" argument. (increasing primitive license numbers at a higher rate than decreasing rifle)

I think it will lead to a bunch of unrecovered animals. Putting people who are used to shooting certain distances and having the wound creation-ability of an expanding bullet into a more restrictive lethality window seems backwards. I think if you want to get into the field and kill with the least disturbance to the "herd" the most efficient weapon is the ticket. I know too many folks who double their wound to recover rates when playing with ML or bows. If the goal is a strong herd, the tags filled to animals shot ratio should be 1:1.

 

[CMF]

Just to clarify do you mean at least allow 1x scopes on muzzleloaders for youth hunters?

I'd like it for adults too, but at least for youth hunters. but to be honest, I've never used a 1x scope, I'm just assuming with good glass it would provide better shooting in low light.
I really think youth hunters should get a normal scope.

 

[CMF]

I think it would lead to a bunch of people talking about being crowded due to more hunters in the field for the "more opportunity" argument. (increasing primitive license numbers at a higher rate than decreasing rifle)

I think when they talk about restricting weapon, they are not planning to increase tag numbers. I think the goal is to keep tag number while improving the herd. at least thats how I understand it most times i've heard the argument.

I think it will lead to a bunch of unrecovered animals. Putting people who are used to shooting certain distances and having the wound creation-ability of an expanding bullet into a more restrictive lethality window seems backwards. I think if you want to get into the field and kill with the least disturbance to the "herd" the most efficient weapon is the ticket. I know too many folks who double their wound to recover rates when playing with ML or bows. If the goal is a strong herd, the tags filled to animals shot ratio should be 1:1.

Like other guys mentioned, no matter the weapon, there will always be wound loss. Always guys taking shots at their max of their range, not to mention the buck fever that hits. Wounding may be more with archery and ML, but I doubt it's much more. I've even seen guides say rifle hunters are worse. I do think there would be increase in wound loss with iron sight vs scope, but who knows how much.

 

[BuckRut]

Do you think it would help with hunter crowding in units where you could only hunt with an open sight muzzleloader or open sight rifle? But then potentially causing hunter crowding in other units from displaced hunters?

Something along those lines. Depends on how widespread the primitive weapon restrictions are applied. Mostly I just don't think it's enough of a barrier to entry to lower the number of people wanting to go out hunting. The majority of the hunters out there today are already accustom to coming home empty handed.

 

[sndmn11]

Like other guys mentioned, no matter the weapon, there will always be wound loss. Always guys taking shots at their max of their range, not to mention the buck fever that hits. Wounding may be more with archery and ML, but I doubt it's much more. I've even seen guides say rifle hunters are worse. I do think there would be increase in wound loss with iron sight vs scope, but who knows how much.

These have some interesting info.

Big game wound/recovery ratio

A tangent from this thread last year. It popped into my mind when I was in WY last weekend and came across a few fres pronghorn carcasses. https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/how-often-do-you-find-unrecovered-animals.334329/ Also to continue on the current wounded animals threads. I am a bit...

rokslide.com

How often do you find unrecovered animals?

I ran across two elk carcasses today, both were in the wide open and visible from several hundred yards off. How often do you find unrecovered animals?

rokslide.com

 

[wildwilderness]

Primitive weapons would reduce success rates. If the same number of tags are issued then more animals will survive, ultimately increasing trophy class.


If the goal is to Increase tag numbers and ultimately the same number of animals harvested then no, would NOT have a benefit, and might even be more detrimental by having increased numbers of hunters and possible more wounding.


The surest way to increase trophy class is limited harvest and less pressure.


For population control killing cows/does etc is better with the most effective means possible to achieve the harvest goal.


Habitat improvements and good weather generally have a much larger effect on wildlife herd health than hunting management.


All that said I would love to have a traditional bow/spear/atl atl early season with a iron sight flintlock loose powder season to follow