S2H course - June 2026

[benconfused]

Get some of the ADI 55 BK or ADI 69 SMK. Both seemed to shoot in almost everyone’s guns. The gun I was using shot 55s better but probably not enough to matter to most people.

I got my 223 T3 sighted in yesterday. Just pulled out some AR surplus I've had which was PMC Bronze 223, and PPU, both 55gr. What's the avg MOA with ADI's?

 

[Ajsomp]

I got my 223 T3 sighted in yesterday. Just pulled out some AR surplus I've had which was PMC Bronze 223, and PPU, both 55gr. What's the avg MOA with ADI's?

I saw 1.5-2 MOA 10 round groups over the week. One of the guys shooting a t3x sporter was well under 1.5 on an orange dot. That thing was a laser beam with the 55s

 

[dreamingWest]

Great stuff about alternative ammo for training. I need to go through all my bulk crap and then find some adi. I'm bad about only shooting black hills or my hand loads in my Tikka.

I'd love to attend this course some day. Not sure I can pull it off while I have teenagers.

 

[nettereo16]

I got my 223 T3 sighted in yesterday. Just pulled out some AR surplus I've had which was PMC Bronze 223, and PPU, both 55gr. What's the avg MOA with ADI's?

I get pretty consistent 1.5-2 moa 10 round grounds with my dirt cheap PMC bronze 55gr. Definitely no better than 1.5 though

 

[benconfused]

I get pretty consistent 1.5-2 moa 10 round grounds with my dirt cheap PMC bronze 55gr. Definitely no better than 1.5 though

Yep same result with mine and that ammo as well.

 

[Formidilosus]

I get pretty consistent 1.5-2 moa 10 round grounds with my dirt cheap PMC bronze 55gr. Definitely no better than 1.5 though

Yep same result with mine and that ammo as well.

I would love to see guns that consistently shoot 2 MOA or less with any 55gr FMJ. That exact ammo (PMC Bronze) has not averaged less than 2.5 MOA in several dozen bolt actions.

 

[RockAndSage]

@Q_Sertorius , @Ajsomp , those two write-ups were great reads, and appreciated.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Great feedback here. Fully planning to enroll for a 2027 session. Fully Tikka'd up already. Curious - what is everyone's go to factory 223 load you use?

The ADI 55- and 69-grain ammo is the best I have found.

 

[nettereo16]

I would love to see guns that consistently shoot 2 MOA or less with any 55gr FMJ. That exact ammo (PMC Bronze) has not averaged less than 2.5 MOA in several dozen bolt actions.

Tikka T3x .223 cut to 18” with YHM R2 suppressor

Here’s groups, I can’t complain about it. I’ve done 5x 10rd groups with PMC Bronze 1.5-2moa, largest was this week at 2.1moa.

I’ve had MUCH worse groups with other cheap 55gr fmj out of this gun. I’m also not a great shooter.

 

[benconfused]

I would love to see guns that consistently shoot 2 MOA or less with any 55gr FMJ. That exact ammo (PMC Bronze) has not averaged less than 2.5 MOA in several dozen bolt actions.

Form, what about the factory ELDM 223 loads? Pricier but any better than the ADI recommendations?

 

[Ratamahatta]

Q_Sertorius assuming you drove, what was the timeframe there and back?

 

[mwoolsey5]

I have used one of those rifles for 32 years. It’s killed hundreds of animals. It’s been through multiple barrels in its life. I liked the “light trigger” and always used it carefully, but didn’t realize it was masking poor technique. That rifle has been to three different “gunsmiths” in the last two years, but none of them said anything about the trigger. The look on Mike’s face when he saw it was enough to make me put it back into the case… but I decided to see if it was drop safe from a one-foot drop. It wasn’t. Maybe future classes will find pieces of the butt plate?

@Q_Sertorius What light trigger were you using in this rifle setup? What pull weight was it set at?


@Ajsomp “If I were starting today - I would buy two tikkas. One in 223 and one in 6cm. I would cut them both to 16” and get a vertical grip and cheek piece until a rokstok lite was available.”

Would you treat this as the 223 for training and the 6 CM for hunting or what would drive your decision when deciding between the two for a hunt?

 

[Formidilosus]

Form, what about the factory ELDM 223 loads? Pricier but any better than the ADI recommendations?

The factory ELD-M 73gr has shot well that I’ve seen.

Next year there will be loaded ammo for people to buy just for this course- either 73gr ELD-M or 77gr Aeromatch.

 

[Ajsomp]

@Q_Sertorius What light trigger were you using in this rifle setup? What pull weight was it set at?


@Ajsomp “If I were starting today - I would buy two tikkas. One in 223 and one in 6cm. I would cut them both to 16” and get a vertical grip and cheek piece until a rokstok lite was available.”

Would you treat this as the 223 for training and the 6 CM for hunting or what would drive your decision when deciding between the two for a hunt?

I would use the 6cm for any state that requires .243 min. Or if I felt my terminal range needed was greater than the 223 would produce.

But I have and would continue to use the 223 with 77 TMK (or 88 TMK if you get a decent load worked up and they stabilize)

 

[Formidilosus]

Tikka T3x .223 cut to 18” with YHM R2 suppressor

Here’s groups, I can’t complain about it. I’ve done 5x 10rd groups with PMC Bronze 1.5-2moa, largest was this week at 2.1moa.

I’ve had MUCH worse groups with other cheap 55gr fmj out of this gun. I’m also not a great shooter.
View attachment 1080555
View attachment 1080554

View attachment 1080553

Looks like you got a good lot or a gun that just likes it. We’ve had three students this year bring that ammo, and some groups would be sub 2 MOA, and some (lots) would be 3 MOA. It’s good for generally positional practice and field shooting for sure. It’s harder for dot shooting and diagnosing.

 

[Dioni A]

The cool-aid must’ve been pretty good!

It's legitimately some of the best food you'll ever have. If they're using the same people that is. I'd go back just for the food!!!!

 

[Q_Sertorius]

Q_Sertorius assuming you drove, what was the timeframe there and back?

I spent 30 hours driving from Charlottesville to the course. I did four on the first day, stopping at the farm to reload ammo and see my dad. The next day I drove to somewhere near St. Joseph, Missouri. I slept in the car for four hours. Then drove to Billings and stayed at the Boot Hill hotel. Then on to the ranch the next morning.

On the way back, I drove to Little Big Horn, toured the battlefield a bit, then drove to Sheridan, Wyoming, where I spent the night in comfort. The next day I drove to somewhere near Omaha, slept in the car for six hours, and drove back to Charlottesville.

Every time I make a long road trip, I tell myself that this time I am going to slow down and smell the roses along the way, but I always end up doing something stupidly direct.

 

[Q_Sertorius]

@Q_Sertorius What light trigger were you using in this rifle setup? What pull weight was it set at?

The first rifle was an FN Mauser action. I’d estimate the pull weight was about 1-1.5#. The real issue was that the previous owner got it there by filing on it, so it wasn’t even. That’s what made it so easy to drop fire. The safety was also very easy to flick off safe. That’s why I always carried that rifle in condition 3.

The T3 trainer had an aftermarket spring that looked like it came out of a ballpoint pen. I had it set as tight as it would go, but I think it was still well under 2#. I had stopped using it after it went off prematurely when I was shooting it offhand (shot the hell out of the bottom of the target). That’s why I had a new OEM spring ready to go.

I’ve used all sorts of light triggers, hair triggers, set triggers, etc. over the years. They can mask a world of poor technique, but are no substitute for a good trigger squeeze, particularly for safety.

 

[Ajsomp]

Q_Sertorius assuming you drove, what was the timeframe there and back?

I drove as well. I did the trip from the DC area. I drove 9-10 hours per day the Thursday/friday/Saturday until I hit Billings Saturday night. Then it was a short trip from Billings to the ranch. I did it a little more relaxed than Q, still had plenty of sleep going into it and wasn’t rushed on Sunday.

 

[Ajsomp]

It's legitimately some of the best food you'll ever have. If they're using the same people that is. I'd go back just for the food!!!!

There was more than one person say they were just coming back to eat the food and paste targets