Rogan #1914 - Siddharth Kara (cobalt mining)

What would all those people in the Congo be doing if the large deposits of cobalt were not discovered in their country? While the working conditions and pay are certainly deplorable, and I feel for those that live in that type of abject poverty, it doesn't necessarily mean they are slaves. The cobalt is concentrated in a very small portion of the country, there are over 6 million people in the Congo, not all of them work in a Cobalt mine. People are willingly going there to try and eke out a living. Are they taken advantage of and treated poorly once they arrive - sure - but slavery?
 
Sorry. This wasn’t intended as a grenade thrown into a room with me walking away - I didn’t finish the podcast until today.

As to whether the “artisanal” miners (classic term) are better off getting $1 or whatever a day, I don’t know but it sounds like after the land is taken and clear cut, they have little ability to go back to their prior way of life. Maybe “slaves” is technically wrong, but they are apparent using child labor, and the conditions are said to be very dangerous (including people being buried alive when makeshift tunnels collapse). And from what I’ve learned on here and elsewhere, it’s not unique to cobalt, or the Congo, for these conditions to exist in the effort to make our lives easier, or at least to satisfy our perceived “needs”.

There were some discussions about fixes, and they touched on having better conditions and machinery for the miners, plus investing in schools, etc. I have no delusions that those are realistic given who is in charge. Another is finding cobalt alternatives, and apparently Tesla has said it’s going that direction and offers 1/2 of its vehicles with cobalt-free batteries.

One comment caught my attention - that we have been trained to believe we constantly need more, and newer, stuff. The newer iPhone, the next 4K TV, etc. I agree and am guilty. It doesn’t involve cobalt, or child labor, but do I really need to build a RS 223 special, and chip in for the Memslide Special batch of scopes from LOW? Can’t I get a few more years out of my iPhone 12 - at least until the damn battery loses its effectiveness….

Anyway, I’m sure this topic will subside like similar issues have, and I’m being realistic that we will all be distracted by something else.
 
molliesmaster said:
People keep putting hope in humanity only to be let down. Somehow each new generation of thinkers is morally superior and is going to do things better than their ancestors. But we are all the same, as far back as the history books go, the story is the same.

Put your trust in God fellas. This place has a shelf life.
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You hit the mail on the head and it’s a lesson that I have been trying to teach my kid. Human nature is largely fixed given the timeframes in which we actually live (100 years is nothing when it comes to evolution).

We live in an age where we think we can out think, out smart, or out technology our human natures. We can’t. This is a fallacy. We are only a few meals away from eating each others faces off, literally.
 
ODB said:
You hit the mail on the head and it’s a lesson that I have been trying to teach my kid. Human nature is largely fixed given the timeframes in which we actually live (100 years is nothing when it comes to evolution).

We live in an age where we think we can out think, out smart, or out technology our human natures. We can’t. This is a fallacy. We are only a few meals away from eating each others faces off, literally.
Click to expand...
Read or listen to "One Second After" when you have a moment. In light of recent domestic attacks on substations, this should be required reading in our schools. A large scale attack, physical or virtual, that took down the grid for a few weeks in one of the large metro areas in this country would result in widespread chaos and death. First from natural causes and then from violence.
 
fwafwow said:
Sorry. This wasn’t intended as a grenade thrown into a room with me walking away - I didn’t finish the podcast until today.

As to whether the “artisanal” miners (classic term) are better off getting $1 or whatever a day, I don’t know but it sounds like after the land is taken and clear cut, they have little ability to go back to their prior way of life. Maybe “slaves” is technically wrong, but they are apparent using child labor, and the conditions are said to be very dangerous (including people being buried alive when makeshift tunnels collapse). And from what I’ve learned on here and elsewhere, it’s not unique to cobalt, or the Congo, for these conditions to exist in the effort to make our lives easier, or at least to satisfy our perceived “needs”.

There were some discussions about fixes, and they touched on having better conditions and machinery for the miners, plus investing in schools, etc. I have no delusions that those are realistic given who is in charge. Another is finding cobalt alternatives, and apparently Tesla has said it’s going that direction and offers 1/2 of its vehicles with cobalt-free batteries.

One comment caught my attention - that we have been trained to believe we constantly need more, and newer, stuff. The newer iPhone, the next 4K TV, etc. I agree and am guilty. It doesn’t involve cobalt, or child labor, but do I really need to build a RS 223 special, and chip in for the Memslide Special batch of scopes from LOW? Can’t I get a few more years out of my iPhone 12 - at least until the damn battery loses its effectiveness….

Anyway, I’m sure this topic will subside like similar issues have, and I’m being realistic that we will all be distracted by something else.
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I hear you and am guilty as well. As a result, the last couple iPhones in our house went until they were no longer supported by Apple. You can either replace batteries and screens on your own for a fraction of the cost of new, or take to one of the many repair shops. IME, their costs are reasonable.
 
I didn't find anything in this podcast to be a huge surprise and Joe Rogan gasping and aweing was annoying. The guest kept throwing out that it would be a "rounding error" or cost less than what they make in a day to fix this problem. It felt flippant to suggest it was such a simple problem and these companies are extremely evil for letting this go on. Shedding light on this problem is great but they should have spent some time talking through some solutions in depth.

Everyone is at fault in this supply chain but the real offenders are closer to the mine. Imagine offering twice whatever they're currently paying for cobalt, you think the miners will make twice as much or the mine owners will make twice as much?

If they built schools or electrical infrastructure the villagers would rip out and sell for scrap whatever wiring, piping, lighting etc. they most easily could.

Their governments should be holding these mining companies to higher standards. I'm sure its corruption from the bottom to the top. This is a generational problem that will take time to solve.
 
jjohnsonElknewbie said:
I hear you and am guilty as well. As a result, the last couple iPhones in our house went until they were no longer supported by Apple. You can either replace batteries and screens on your own for a fraction of the cost of new, or take to one of the many repair shops. IME, their costs are reasonable.
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I thought about that when I was posting, but replacing batteries reduces Apple’s profit, but not my cobalt usage. Don’t get me wrong - I’m not going crazy over this, but a 2023 resolution to “buy less $hit” doesn’t hurt for a variety of reasons.
James_Miller said:
I didn't find anything in this podcast to be a huge surprise and Joe Rogan gasping and aweing was annoying. The guest kept throwing out that it would be a "rounding error" or cost less than what they make in a day to fix this problem. It felt flippant to suggest it was such a simple problem and these companies are extremely evil for letting this go on. Shedding light on this problem is great but they should have spent some time talking through some solutions in depth.


Their governments should be holding these mining companies to higher standards. I'm sure its corruption from the bottom to the top. This is a generational problem that will take time to solve.
Click to expand...
I agree. He also had irritating verbal tics, but neither of them is an expert on this topic. The guest did his part - he investigated. Rogan did his - he got the guest more publicity and recognition. Neither one is competent (nor am I) to propose solutions, or to discuss the possible downsides to any solutions.

I think there would need to be government involvement, but our own government can’t find where defense spending goes, and I expect the Congo government is worse.
 
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