Rifled slug gun or muzzleloader?

[JFK]

Looking at getting either a rifled slug gun like the savage 212/220 or an inline muzzleloader. Not because I want to, but because it will open up some opportunity for me close to home. What’s the consensus on what is better? I reload for rifle now so am comfortable with the idea of weighing charges for a muzzleloader, but also like the idea of a simpler slug gun and just using factory ammo.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Slug guns suck ass. I know the Savage is probably the most refined of the bunch, but the recoil even with the 20 gauge is a PIA. In IA we suffered with slugs-only for decades. Then they opened to inlines, then straight wall, and now bottlenecks .35 cal or bigger are legal during gun season. I picked up a .35 Whelen a couple years ago, and am considering swapping it out for a .358 Winchester (.35 Whelen "short").

This one isn't even a question for me, if your only choices are slugs or muzzy, I'd go muzzleloader every time. Load it up with Blackhorn and your pick of 250 grain sabot and go kill stuff. If planning Western hunts, make sure to get one with open sights included.

I've been using a nitride CVA Accura with thumbhole for many years and its been bulletproof.

 

[SwiftShot]

A good muzzleloader has insane accuracy now. My CVA Wolf cheap muzzleloader hold a 3.5 inch group open sights at 100 yards. That is a 5 shot group.

 

[JFK]

Thanks for the advice. How are they out to 200ish yards with a scope?

 

[Rich M]

Can you do a straight wall cartridge? Better than either ML or slug gun.

I have a CVA Optima V2 that will shoot cloverleafs at 120 yds. W a bdc scope it would do 200 easily.

No real experiencevw the slug guns. A bolt action 20 ga seems to be the cat’s meow. Recoil is stout.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Thanks for the advice. How are they out to 200ish yards with a scope?

They are very capable of 200 and a little more depending on the bullet and charge. My daughter killed a mature Iowa buck a couple years ago with a .50 cal 250 Hornady SST over 90 grains of Blackhorn. Buck was walking slowly at 135 and I stopped him at 140. He dropped on the shot, stood back up and death spiraled about 20 yards. He was quartering away slightly and bullet entered behind near shoulder and exited in front of far shoulder. Double lung pass through….

 

[rclouse79]

I sold a muzzleloader for a savage 220 and would never go back. The 220 is insanely accurate. I bought a swfa 6x and have dialed out to 200 at the range and it is dead nuts. I killed an elk with it last November during a short range weapon season.
You can also get three rounds downrange in a fraction of the time it would take you to reload your second shot with a muzzleloader.

 

[Jimbee]

Muzzleloaders suck. Get a shotgun. Some folks are buying CVA 45/70 single shots and having them converted to a long range .45cal Muzzleloader shooting smokeless powder, if thats an option. My opinion is to avoid anything to do with Blackhorn or blackpowder. Expensive and dirty pita.

 

[Wapiti1]

I'll warn you that it isn't just a load and shoot deal with a muzzleloader. They can be and are very accurate out to long ranges. My longest kill was a nice bull in New Mexico at 273 yards. 300gr Parker pushed by 90grains of BH209. Muzzle velocity on that load is 1800fps and it will print 3-4" at 300 yards. That is in a Savage ML2. If you want accurate, I would suggest Knight.

But, it took a bit of trial and error to find a sabot/bullet/charge combo that worked. They can be temperamental bastards, and you have to pay attention to temperature of the barrel and sabots to get the best out of them. Too warm and the sabots get soft, strip in the rifling, and you will just get frustrated.

I would suggest looking in the muzzleloader section here for tips and tricks.

20 gauge sabot slugs are an easier way to go, even with the recoil. Just my opinion. I've had H&R handi-rifles in 20 gauge and a couple of 20 gauge Mossbergs with rifled barrels that were all about 1.5" at 100. Enough for 200, but not quite enough juice past that.

Jeremy

 

[MAP1]

12 gauge slugs aren’t cheap but I would still go that route.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

Muzzleloaders suck. Get a shotgun. Some folks are buying CVA 45/70 single shots and having them converted to a long range .45cal Muzzleloader shooting smokeless powder, if thats an option. My opinion is to avoid anything to do with Blackhorn or blackpowder. Expensive and dirty pita.

Buddy did the 45/70 conversion, and although expensive, that thing is a shooter out to 250 and then some.
Blackhorn is the easy button for muzzleloaders and does not attract moisture and is non-corrosive. I've left mine loaded in the basement for more than 6 months, thrown a cap on it and fired no problem. Hell, I haven't cleaned mine from last year yet. Not a hint of corrosion anywhere. Between nitride coating and Blackhorn properties, muzzleloading can be enjoyable. I've never found slugs of any gauge a pleasure to shoot.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

But, it took a bit of trial and error to find a sabot/bullet/charge combo that worked. They can be temperamental bastards, and you have to pay attention to temperature of the barrel and sabots to get the best out of them. Too warm and the sabots get soft, strip in the rifling, and you will just get frustrated.

I've never had any of these issues, but not saying it can't happen in a hotter climate.

I've tried tons of different sabot/bullet combinations in a couple different Knight rifles as well as my CVA and had virtually the same experience on paper with 90 grains of BH. I've done the harvester crush sabots with different bullets, and while easier to load, accuracy wasn't significantly different. The Barnes T-EZ are good bullets and fairly easy to load and have killed well in the past. For better long range performance and expansion, I've used the Precision Rifle bullets out of Canada. Their all lead 260 grain extreme elite and QT Polymer tipped are excellent bullets and leave big holes.

2 years ago I was out of bullets and picked up the 250 Hornady SST the day before late season opener, because that is all the Scheels had left. To my surprise they shot as good if not better than everything else i've tried. They also loaded very slick, and I've shot up to 10 times without running a patch or scrubbing the barrel.

One thing to note on bullet weights. The heavier you go the tighter they fit with sabots, so you need to pay attention to this. After 4 or 5 shots a 300 grain sabot is gonna be more difficult to load than a 250.

I haven't used black powder, Goex, pyrodex, or Triple 7 in years due to the filthy, nasty, corrosive mess they all are. I had 2 Triple 7 pellets turn to soup overnight when I brought a cold gun into a 60 degree basement in a case!

Blackhorn is a game changer for cleaning and can easily be cleaned out of your barrel with hot water and dish soap.

 

[JFK]

I'll warn you that it isn't just a load and shoot deal with a muzzleloader. They can be and are very accurate out to long ranges. My longest kill was a nice bull in New Mexico at 273 yards. 300gr Parker pushed by 90grains of BH209. Muzzle velocity on that load is 1800fps and it will print 3-4" at 300 yards. That is in a Savage ML2. If you want accurate, I would suggest Knight.

But, it took a bit of trial and error to find a sabot/bullet/charge combo that worked. They can be temperamental bastards, and you have to pay attention to temperature of the barrel and sabots to get the best out of them. Too warm and the sabots get soft, strip in the rifling, and you will just get frustrated.

I would suggest looking in the muzzleloader section here for tips and tricks.

20 gauge sabot slugs are an easier way to go, even with the recoil. Just my opinion. I've had H&R handi-rifles in 20 gauge and a couple of 20 gauge Mossbergs with rifled barrels that were all about 1.5" at 100. Enough for 200, but not quite enough juice past that.

Jeremy

Good to know. Honestly I’m not looking to tinker with it or have anything custom built. I handload for my rifles and am comfortable with development, but I’m really just looking for a tool to use a few times per year. I have no interest in muzzleloaders or slug guns beyond the fact that it opens up a good area to hunt. If I got a slug gun I’d get a 20ga. Recoil is a consideration but I also wouldn’t either choice for fun. The fact that the 220 is a familiar bolt operated gun that allows fast follow up shots is appealing.

Seems like the slug gun might be the easier, more hassle free option.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

12 gauge slugs aren’t cheap but I would still go that route.

No freaking way would I go back to 12 gauge slugs. Most guys, including myself, that I grew up hunting with 12's absolutely dreaded having to sight them in before season. Mosberg 500 with 24" ported slug barrel and open sights was my tool, and one 5 round box inside a paper plate at 100 was typically "good enough" for accuracy AND a sore shoulder. Absolutely dreadful to shoot... A litte better in a semi-auto with extra weight, but still crappy. Then you got guys that would shoot the 3" and even 3.5" magnum 12 gauge slugs, talk about deminishing returns.

 

[Jimbee]

Buddy did the 45/70 conversion, and although expensive, that thing is a shooter out to 250 and then some.
Blackhorn is the easy button for muzzleloaders and does not attract moisture and is non-corrosive. I've left mine loaded in the basement for more than 6 months, thrown a cap on it and fired no problem. Hell, I haven't cleaned mine from last year yet. Not a hint of corrosion anywhere. Between nitride coating and Blackhorn properties, muzzleloading can be enjoyable. I've never found slugs of any gauge a pleasure to shoot.

I stand firm in my belief that muzzleloaders suck. Shotguns suck a little less. I live in Iowa also and begrudgingly use muzzleloaders, but only if I have to.

 

[Jimbee]

Good to know. Honestly I’m not looking to tinker with it or have anything custom built. I handload for my rifles and am comfortable with development, but I’m really just looking for a tool to use a few times per year. I have no interest in muzzleloaders or slug guns beyond the fact that it opens up a good area to hunt. If I got a slug gun I’d get a 20ga. Recoil is a consideration but I also wouldn’t either choice for fun. The fact that the 220 is a familiar bolt operated gun that allows fast follow up shots is appealing.

Seems like the slug gun might be the easier, more hassle free option.

Not sure where you live, but lots of Iowans traded in their slug guns when other more appealing options became available for hunting. Lots of used slug guns available

 

[Tmac]

I went with a scoped 20ga slug gun. We are prevented from scoping muzzleloaders in muzzleloader seasons. So my old eyes argued for a scope and won.

 

[signing off]

This is a 20 ga. Needed it in IL but moved out of there. PM for details.

 

[jjohnsonElknewbie]

I stand firm in my belief that muzzleloaders suck. Shotguns suck a little less. I live in Iowa also and begrudgingly use muzzleloaders, but only if I have to.

Roger that and I use .35 Whelen during regular gun season since they changed the law. Before that me and my girls used CVA Scout in .44 magnum and that was a killer inside 125. Went with the Whelen for purpose-built hunting rifle without straight wall or muzzleloader compromises.

I like the late muzzleloader season, as IME it is the best time of year for patterning deer and especially mature bucks. The colder and deeper the snow the better the hunting, and if you have access to late winter food sources south of bedding areas it can be outstanding.

 

[Boarmaster]

I hunted with slug guns in Ohio for 20 years. Most recently I started hunting ML in AL. Moved on to straight wall(.444 and 350 Legend) in Ohio. Between the two options of ML or Slug gun I would go with a slug gun. ML is great if your really into it and willing to put the time into practice but if your looking for convenience the slug gun wins out for me.