Rifle that won't Group

[NomadMeHappy]

Brief backgound... I did not grow up in a hunting family. Hunted with some Oregon buds for the first time for a handful of years 20 years ago. Sold my guns when I moved to WA cuz I could not afford out of state tags. 2-3 years ago started buying a few guns and became fascinated with different calibers and have been getting into shooting at the range, but still pretty much a neophyte. I've mounted and bore sighted a few scopes and zero'd a half dozen rifles sub MOA w/o issue.

Got a coworker that recently inherited 140 acres that has deer and elk that come through. He has a young family and not much dough. I came upon what seemed like a good deal on a Savage Axis .30-06 and talked him into buying it. I have the exact same model in .223. Both his and mine have a pretty heavy trigger (non-Accutrigger). I get awesome groups with my .223. His came with a Vortex Diamondback II 4x12x44.

Today we went to the range to sight it in and it was all over the place. It came with a couple boxes of Remmington CoreLokt. One ancient from the 90's and the other we could not date, but looked much more recent (current packaging). 100 yds. First couple of groups were not on paper, but we got there after a couple. Once we were on paper we were just all over creation. like 8-10" groups. At one point I was able to shoot a 4-5" group. Our 1/4 MOA/click scope adjustments did not seem to make sense.

So reaching out for some wisdom. I have a Lead Sled we could use to eliminate/reduce operator error. We could go buy some fresh ammo. I have other scopes I could mount. Maybe the rifle just sucks?

Looking for your suggestions on a plan of attack based on above info to see if we can make this a huntable rifle.

 

[PathFinder]

Step 1: Use a known good scope and mounts. That scope is extremely suspect, especially if the adjustments are also not responding (though it would be hard to tell with groups that large).

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[RWT]

Start at the basics. First pull EVERYTHING apart and clean it with acetone or brake cleaner. Then reassemble with vibratite or a paint pen. Need to use an inch lb wrench if you can for reassembly. Action screws at a minimum 35” lbs. base and rings need to be 20-25#. You can get the wrench for a reasonable price on Amazon.

Then clean the action and bore. Basic cleaning will get it done. Since it was used you never know what was in the barrel to begin with. Every used rifle I purchase, I dissemble and clean thoroughly before mounting up a scope to shoot. Found a crayon in a used rifle once.

Then go shoot. This should help get you a reasonable group. Don’t make any adjustment other than to get on paper. Once on paper shoot 2 separate 5 shot strings. This should give you a basic cone of what to expect from the rifle. Don’t be shocked at a 3-4” group. Once you have this and the rifle appears to group then make adjustments. If the scope matches your adjustments you should be good. You can experiment later with what ammo it may prefer for smaller groups. . If the group is greater than 4” you likely have a scope that doesn’t hold zero or a rings/ bases issue. Then you need to look at replacing bases and rings. Then scope.

What rings and bases are on the rifle? These are easy upgrades. Warne or Nightforce bases are under $100. Warne or Burris tactical rings can be found for $120or under. You will be told to buy a better scope and I would agree with that. You can obtain a SWFA for $350ish that will hold zero better than the Vortex.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

I would use a proven scope, make sure the action screws are tight. Those guns are light and a a 30-06 is going to have some decent recoil.

 

[Tanner]

Yeet the scope and bases into the trash, put a 10x SWFA in some pic rings on a rail on it, buy some FGMM and revisit.

 

[doverpack12]

Agree start with the scope. And clean the barrel good so you have a starting point. Take the stock off and clean everything.

Get some standard 165-180 grain ammo not the cheap federal or corlokt. Those will usually shoot alright but with those groups I would change.

Some savages can be sensitive to action screw torque. Play with how much torque on each screw.

 

[Bidwell]

I have the same story as you. Didn't grow up hunting and just figuring things out. I can get pretty consistent just barely sub moa to 1.5 moa groups, 5- 8 shots. So not pro here but fine for hunting within 400 yards or so.

All the advice about action screws, scope and rings are what you should try first. My scope on my first rifle was shifting by millimeters due to recoil and it was hard to tell. I put some painters tape near the edge of the ring so I could shoot a couple shots and see how much it moved. I had a hell of a time keeping that scope still. I ended up putting a little dab of epoxy on my rings (this is probably terrible advice) If you feel like it, no shame in taking it to a smith and have em take a look. Kinda wish I did.

This probably doesn't apply to your current problem, but just for technique advice that I've gotten from other people you can check the following, if not already: waitting 3-5 minutes (or more if it's hot) between every shot for the barrel to cool, holding the rifle the same way every time (the only thing that works for me is free recoil, even with light rifles), watching parallax, breath and relax - shoot after exhale, work on flinching, I never had luck with lead sleds, made me shoot worse. And honestly, my groups didn't start getting really consistent until I began handloading. I never could find a factory load that shot great. I would get a good 3 shot group here or there but couldn't string 5, 7 or 10 shots with them.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Send the scope back to vortex for not holding zero. While it's gone, take the other steps outlined above. When it comes back new/repaired, sell it locally and buy a swfa. mount the swfa properly and try again.

Also, your lead sled is going to break scopes. Those things are not good at all.

 

[TaperPin]

All good advice above. Setting up any new rifle it helps to assume every part is wrong until you verify it’s correct. It’s challenging when you’re just figuring out the basics, but you’ll figure it out over time.

A fairly light 30-06 has a decent kick. Have your buddy load or not load the rifle where you can’t see or hear so only 1 out of 3 times actually has a cartridge. That will show how much of a problem recoil is.

Definitely replace the lead sled with bags front and rear.

 

[juju]

All above is good advice.

Also take care not to put pressure on the stock, putting stock in a bind. It needs to slide back and forth in the bags without binding. The cheap plastic sticks are squirrelly.

And don't expect that scope to ever have accurate adjustments. It may hold zero if you don't beat it up, but zeroing by the marks on the turrets is making a poor bet.. Look up the one shot zero method on YouTube to work around inaccurate turrets. The lead sled is good for strapping the rifle down for the one shot method while making adjustments, but not for shooting.

Cheap guns and scopes aren't cheap if you have to spend a lot of gas and ammo getting them ready.

 

[Rich M]

Clean the bore & tighten screws

Shoot off sled

If you still cant hit have a buddy who shoots good try it. If he/she also cant group…. Cut losses and move on.

Life is short.

 

[jimh406]

There is no way to know if it scope or not unless you swap the scope/rings/base with a known good.

However, Ultimate Reloader and Backfire worked on a Mossberg Patriot that wouldn't group. It turned out to be the barrel. They narrowed it down after swapping the barrel.

Other cases of not grouping at all have simply being loose screws and sometimes damaged scopes.

However, If you have parts to swap out, that might help narrow it down. Vortex have a lifetime warranty, so you might want to reach out to them to check it out for you.

Note: it could be more than one problem.

 

[ScreamingPotato]

I wouldn't buy anything else yet. The least expensive way to start is remove all scope and base screws, and action screws (they hold the stock on) and degrease them all and torque back down properly. This will cost you nothing but the price of a torque driver which is something you keep forever and will use on other rifles. For testing I wouldn't even use Loctite or paint pen or anything. Get a box of known good ammo and try again.

You mentioned it came with some old ammo and that makes me think it's a used rifle. This barrel could be shot out or mistreated so this could be not worth fixing.

 

[Tanner]

I would also add that I’d also yeet the lead sled into the trash can along with the Scope.

 

[Wrench]

8 moa is telling you it's aiming device problems. 2-3 I'd be looking at the gun, beyond 4 or so.....it's the scope.

 

[NomadMeHappy]

The rifle is use, but looks unused. I have not used the Lead Sled yet. Also, considering yeeting said lead sled. I have the exact same scope on a .270 Ruger American that shoots sub MOA. Being a Vortex, if we come down to believing it's the scope I will encourage by bud to deal with Vortex for a solution. That will be my first experience dealing with their warranty.

 

[WCB]

Agree start with the scope. And clean the barrel good so you have a starting point. Take the stock off and clean everything.

Get some standard 165-180 grain ammo not the cheap federal or corlokt. Those will usually shoot alright but with those groups I would change.

Some savages can be sensitive to action screw torque. Play with how much torque on each screw.

"get standard 165gr-180gr"...but not literally standard 165-180gr?

So Winchester white box? Hornady Winchester Whitetail?

 

[doverpack12]

"get standard 165gr-180gr"...but not literally standard 165-180gr?

So Winchester white box? Hornady Winchester Whitetail?

I meant don’t buy some super high bc heavy bullet or long heavy “standard” weight copper