Rifle scope help

I don't even really look at ffp glass, but I have to imagine there are many more budget friendly options in SFP.

I don't really need an explanation, but have you considered SFP? You may be overlooking many other features/quality to get ffp in your budget.

Just my 2c
 
The Tract 3-15 with the Eagleman reticle is a nice scope. I enjoy shooting with this scope. Basically the same internals and origin as the Maven 1.2 but less expensive. I like the Eagleman reticle but do believe I will like the S2H THLR reticle more. I have 2 of the S2H scopes on order. To me the THLR reticle is the hunting reticle nirvana I have been searching for, hopefully I like it as much as I think I will.
 
You won't regret spending a little more and getting the 'right for your situation scope' and high quality glass. You will regret cutting corners. I haven't personally tested all the scopes and brands but my Leupold vx5, vx6, and maven are all worth the money in SFP options (I prefer SFP for hunting).

My lesser scopes like vortex viper HST, actually track and function very well, but when you're looking into a hillside that is backlit by the sun (East before the sun crests, or west after it's gone behind the hill), the quality of the glass/lens coatings becomes obvious. In this situation I can still readily find critters in my maven and swaro optics and can not hardly find even more obvious targets in the lesser optics. Being that my purposes are to kill game up until the end of shooting hours, I've been very happy with my optics upgrades and wished I never wasted the money on lesser optics other than the fact that I've personally learned my lesson.
Why do you say second focal plane? Don’t you have to change your drop when you magnify? Sorry I’m not familiar with this longer pokes.
 
You are correct

But...

My SFP preference reasoning. You should always walk around in the woods with your scope zoomed all the way out to the lowest magnification and paralax set around 100yd. This positioning will make for the easiest Target acquisition in a hurry up and shoot scenario. On any deer or elk sized game, you can quickly find your target, and with a 200 yard zero you should hit within 1.5 in of center without any holdover out to 225yd. Plus, with SFP, you have a nice heavy/solid reticle at these shorter ranges on lowest zoom.

Beyond 300yd I will simply dial my turret, which first or second FP doesn't matter. Holding elevation or wind with reticle markings takes significant practice and I find not totally intuitive aiming with a place significantly out of the center of the scope. I use my windage hash marks if I'm shooting steel at 500+yd and see my splash is just slightly more off than what I held for wind when I dialed. Or use the hash to measure the miss from target center to dust splash on a miss. Otherwise dialing and holding with the center crosshair works best for me.

Something to consider
 
You are correct

But...

My SFP preference reasoning. You should always walk around in the woods with your scope zoomed all the way out to the lowest magnification and paralax set around 100yd. This positioning will make for the easiest Target acquisition in a hurry up and shoot scenario. On any deer or elk sized game, you can quickly find your target, and with a 200 yard zero you should hit within 1.5 in of center without any holdover out to 225yd. Plus, with SFP, you have a nice heavy/solid reticle at these shorter ranges on lowest zoom.

Beyond 300yd I will simply dial my turret, which first or second FP doesn't matter. Holding elevation or wind with reticle markings takes significant practice and I find not totally intuitive aiming with a place significantly out of the center of the scope. I use my windage hash marks if I'm shooting steel at 500+yd and see my splash is just slightly more off than what I held for wind when I dialed. Or use the hash to measure the miss from target center to dust splash on a miss. Otherwise dialing and holding with the center crosshair works best for me.

Something to consider
So realistically if you’re shooting past 300 yards it’s the same process regardless of focal plane? And you prefer secondary for the clarity close up? I hunt in places it can get thick so that wouldn’t be a bad idea
 
I'd offer a different perspective on FFP.

It is correct that the dial doesn't care what magnification you are at or whether you're SFP or FFP, but the reticle does. I almost never use elevation holds, so SFP is not a big disadvantage to me there.

I dial elevation and hold wind 99% of the time. Being able to make an accurate wind hold regardless of magnification is a big deal for me. Lots of times at 300-600 I'll be well under max magnification (often around 4-6x) but want to hold .3-.7 mils of windage.

I would say for 99.9% of shooters who practice even somewhat regularly, holding wind in the reticle is the most effective way to compensate. It takes tons more practice to reliably dial wind and is MUCH more prone to error (dialing the wrong way, or forgetting to zero out a wind turret). I can't tell if you're being advised to dial wind with a SFP scope, but I would recommend against that VERY strongly. Also holding wind off inches or "vibes" (if light wind and not too far, hold edge of vitals) is far inferior to mil based holds.

100 yard zero is the way if you have a scope that dials reliably. Quite a few people walk around with 0.5 mils on the turret for a quick 100-250 shot without worrying about adjusting the dial. This gets you the advantage of a 200 yard zero, but without the disadvantages. 100 yards is mostly immune to wind, completely immune to changes with air density/temp, you can find 100 yards to check/establish more easily than 200, and in my experience it's easier to establish a very solid 100 yard zero than 200.

All the FFP scopes that have been recommended have good to great hunting reticles that are easily visible at low magnification on close, dark stuff. Lots of the "tacticool" or "gamer" scopes have thin reticles that do get very difficult on low magnification, and I would not recommend them.
 
How much training do you have to shoot beyond say a quarter mile (440 yards)? How often and how much ammo do you burn each month shooting long range? Unless you are burning out a barrel at least every year then I would forget the idea of shooting to 600, 700, or beyond. I found this out when I began teaching LR marksmanship classes and had to hold myself accountable to do the things that I was teaching.

Simply grabbing a LR capable rifle/chambering/optic combo does not make one proficient at shooting long range. Sadly.

MIL are better than MOA if you are shooting beyond MPBR range.
Same for FFP vs SFP.
Eric115 above is correct - dial for elevation beyond MPBR and hold for wind. His comment about walking around at 0.5 mils of elevation is an astute one.
 
How much training do you have to shoot beyond say a quarter mile (440 yards)? How often and how much ammo do you burn each month shooting long range? Unless you are burning out a barrel at least every year then I would forget the idea of shooting to 600, 700, or beyond. I found this out when I began teaching LR marksmanship classes and had to hold myself accountable to do the things that I was teaching.

Simply grabbing a LR capable rifle/chambering/optic combo does not make one proficient at shooting long range. Sadly.

MIL are better than MOA if you are shooting beyond MPBR range.
Same for FFP vs SFP.
Eric115 above is correct - dial for elevation beyond MPBR and hold for wind. His comment about walking around at 0.5 mils of elevation is an astute one.
This is my first go at it. I plan on putting in the effort to become proficient. Not rifle hunting this year so don’t worry about me wounding animals. I’ve just accomplished my goals with the bow and want to try hunting mule deer and bear more. Trying a glassing method. Just something new.

What is MPBR if you don’t mind me asking?
 
So realistically if you’re shooting past 300 yards it’s the same process regardless of focal plane? And you prefer secondary for the clarity close up? I hunt in places it can get thick so that wouldn’t be a bad idea
Mpbr=max point blank range. This usually is understood to mean zeroing at 200-ish rather than 100, so that the bullet trajectory is never more than a couple inches above or below your point of aim, to allow you to simply aim dead-center out to 250-300 yards. It works well to a point, but the built-in error usually causes some problems if you push it too far. A dialing scope can shortcut some of the issues and accomplish the same thing by zeroing at 100 and walking around dialed to .5mil where appropriate.

You are in a tough spot trying to find one scope to do double duty at very long range as well as short-range in the woods. You really want to be dialing elevation and holding wind in the reticle at 400-700 yards, regardless of whether thats hunting or practicing practical shooting. 2fp makes this nearly impossible at anything other than max magnification—and since you have a gun with a lot of recoil that matters, being forced to have a tiny field of view in order to use the reticle is a disaster. A very few people will argue those points, but those folks are very few and very far between—its fair to say the overwhelming general concensus is that ffp is +\- mandatory for shooting past point blank range effectively. Mandatory= it can be done without, but its clearly less effective in almost any practical situation. 99.9% of dentists consider 2fp a liability past point-blank, increasingly so the higher the magnification and recoil.

Note, Im saying this as an eastern hunter that has struggled with crappy invisible ffp reticles in the past. I agree that MOST ffp reticles suck for a close range hunter in the woods. I own some 2fp scopes by choice, but I would never choose 2fp for a gun I planned to shoot past 300 yards or so—those will always wear a ffp scope. If you are hunting in thick cover and close range as well, then just make certain to get a scope with a reticle thats easily useable at 3x without illumination against a busy background. The swfa’s and the maven 1.2 are both ffp scopes with reticles useable at lowest mag. Theres a few others as well but most of those are out of your stated price range.

On balance, if longer range is a requirement, there is really no question that a carefully chosen ffp scope is the only good option.

Re mils vs moa—unless you already have a lifetime of thinking in moa and cant change out of habit, mils is easier to learn, easier to use on the fly, has some convenient shortcuts for wind that are easier, and the vast majority of the longer-range focused shooters Ive met use mils so you can speak the same language as most others.
 
I will add in to sway in the direction I think is correct.

If you can wait the s2h scope looks to be a real winner with the thlr reticle specifically. I have two on order. If you need something sooner I would hands down get a swfa 3-9x42 ffp mil. Ebay has zero stop shim kits for like $20 and you have a zero stop.

I have multiple SFP scopes and I really do prefer the FFP when you actually have it. Regardless of drop you will always have the need for wind holds, even at 100 yards. Good luck figuring your windhold out quickly if your not on the correct magnification that match up with your subtensions. To be fair 300 yards and in you may get away with not even thinking about holding wind.

I have a trijicon credo 2.5-15 which requires a full 15 magnification for the subtensions to line up correctly. Shooting game at 15 magnification is counter productive and therefore makes my reticle almost useless. I end up with a noiser duplex when shooting at animals although I do prefer the small dot over a duplex. I would reccomend a lower magnification scope if you do go SFP. I have a nightforce nxs 2.5-10 where I find myself more readily in the correct magnification for the subtensions to be accurace. Spoiler I think the SWFA 3-9 is a better scope especially after you factor cost.
 
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