Revamping optics setup

[4th_point]

I live in and hunt the Midwest, but also go out west for 1-2 hunts/year. I use my binos frequently on the move, but also use a tripod for longer glassing sessions.

My current thinking is Sig Zulu6 10x30 on my chest. I figured that would make the most sense as I’m generally moving around a good amount and the image stabilization is fantastic while on the move.

Guesstimates:
40’of my time glassing is on a tripod

Average distance- 500 yds, max distance 3 miles

Probably hours wise, 50% wide open west

Here's food for thought (lot to cover, so it's lengthy and may need to make a few posts to cover it all):

I owned the non-HDX 10x30 and the non-HDX 16x42 - both are handy, but unless you really need the stabilization, the downsides might outweigh the IS.

First, "The West" has a lot of variety - where I live, I can hunt a wet side and a dry side. The wet side is like a jungle, the dry side is a high desert. I'm not sure how much experience you have hunting the "West", since you live in the Midwest. I'm going to assume some experience, with 1-2 hunts/yr, but not a ton. I apologize if you already mentioned it.

Here's the catch, some of the thickest timber I have ever seen is near the breaks of the Snake (Hells Canyon). These look like strips or ribbons of thick timber in a dry/barren hellscape - you can see it on Google Earth. Those ribbons hold game, so even if you think that you'll be hunting the "wide open", the deer and elk might be in that thick timber all day until the light fades. Or in larger patches of timber.

You might also find yourself in some deep, dark hell hole with thick timber, but the sun is still high in the sky! WTF?

Steep hillsides shield the sun, well before sunset. Because of that, I don't want my binocs to limit ability to see detail in lowlight. Any magnification helps you see in lowlight, but some models will be better than others.

On the flip side, some "Western" hunts aren't that different than a corn field in that it's open, and ambient light is less of a concern (i.e. high desert flatland or parts of the Southwest).

I would just keep in mind that dark timber might be on the menu, even in dry canyon and mountain landscapes.

So the 10x30 SIG might work well for you, if you like to beat the brush in dark timber during good light or plan to hunt more open areas where steep/deep canyons and associated darkness is less of a concern.

It's up to you to determine if this matters or not.

For me, I can just hunt the wet side if I want to beat brush! But, I am prepared to hunt the open AND the timber, even if I've got a tag for the dry side. I need a binocs that work well for everything.

More to come...

 

[JGRaider]

They don't depend on the battery to work. Only the stabilization does FYI.

Then you're left with a really narrow FOV, very average glass, and an ergonomic nightmare. I can't believe Sig sells any of those things.

 

[Bak222]

For a few years now I've also been running the Maven B6 12x50 and love them, though with all the 12x NL Pure love going around I thought they'd be a massive improvement over anything in the Universe. I did a non-scientific back to back comparison when antelope hunting and honestly couldn't see a whole heck of a lot of difference in the fov and quality between the Pures and my Mavens.

I don't doubt they're better for a trained eye, in certain light/color situations, but the degree of difference was far far too little to justify the huge expense of the Pures over the Mavens, so luckily I was able to return them.

For years I owned and used the SLC 15x, which were very nice on a tripod, but very heavy and really didn't end up being used too much, as I would opt for the more versatile (better hand holding/lighter) 12x50 Mavens.
So the SLC's got sold and now I'm almost always just running the Mavens and sometimes carrying a spotter.

I do live, scout and hunt in Montana so do tend to glass longer distances where I would really prefer not to sacrifice the added range of the 12x.

If you buy used then decide to change it's really not too much of a price hit, so makes a great option to try things.

Yea I really like the mavens for what they are. The clarity and image quality were never my issue with them. Just FOV, which is more so an issue of them being 12’s than rather than that particular bino

 

[4th_point]

More to come...

Where the 10x SIG sucks, compared to an optically superior bino, is tripod mounted. The pic below was from a hunt where I took 8x42 SLC and spotter, but for the scouting trip I took 10x30 and 16x42 SIGs.

Once on a tripod, the IS almost becomes moot. I say almost because IS can sometimes still help on a tripod that is less stable - but most IS are not tuned for that vibration range.

Anyway, in that pic you will see an island of trees in the background just above the focuser. That was ~1 mile from the viewing location. Bucks hide in that island, but would come out of cover for a bit then back in, even during the day.

An 8x or 10x bino is obviously not the ideal tool to see detail at 1 mile. Especially in that landscape where deer blend in well, with that particular soil and veg. You won't get detail, but instead take advantage of the wide FOV to detect motion, right?

The downside to the Zulu6 is that your viewing area is compromised - it is fairly sharp in the middle but the rest sucks. And in order to use an 8x or 10x at longer distances, the key is to keep your binocs stationary as much as possible. You are looking for movement, not panning willy nilly.

In terms of pure resolving ability, the 8x SLC was superior - the 10x SIG provided a bigger image, but no additional detail. But that was the non-HDX. I have tried the new HDX, but have not bothered testing the resolution because it still has too many downside for my needs.

For this example, it's not even the resolution really, it's more about having the most usable FOV to pick up movement. Something with acceptable flat field is more useful than blurry edges and IS.

 

[Bak222]

Where the 10x SIG sucks, compared to an optically superior bino, is tripod mounted. The pic below was from a hunt where I took 8x42 SLC and spotter, but for the scouting trip I took 10x30 and 16x42 SIGs.

Once on a tripod, the IS almost becomes moot. I say almost because IS can sometimes still help on a tripod that is less stable - but most IS are not tuned for that vibration range.

Anyway, in that pic you will see an island of trees in the background just above the focuser. That was ~1 mile from the viewing location. Bucks hide in that island, but would come out of cover for a bit then back in, even during the day.

An 8x or 10x bino is obviously not the ideal tool to see detail at 1 mile. Especially in that landscape where deer blend in well, with that particular soil and veg. You won't get detail, but instead take advantage of the wide FOV to detect motion, right?

The downside to the Zulu6 is that your viewing area is compromised - it is fairly sharp in the middle but the rest sucks. And in order to use an 8x or 10x at longer distances, the key is to keep your binocs stationary as much as possible. You are looking for movement, not panning willy nilly.

In terms of pure resolving ability, the 8x SLC was superior - the 10x SIG provided a bigger image, but no additional detail. But that was the non-HDX. I have tried the new HDX, but have not bothered testing the resolution because it still has too many downside for my needs.

For this example, it's not even the resolution really, it's more about having the most usable FOV to pick up movement. Something with acceptable flat field is more useful than blurry edges and IS.

View attachment 884153

Thanks for all the info, that’s great. I think an 8x is something I definitely want, for all the reasons mentioned. The lack of FOV with my 12x mavens was the reason I started looking for other options. I got to look through multiple again the other day when it was cloudy, the NL pure 8x42 was amazing, and made the SFL 8x40 seem “tunneled” for lack of a better term because the FOV is so good on the NL, glad you reminded me about the glare, because that was pretty bad last time I looked through the NL. Do you mind me asking what you’re currently running after all of your testing?

 

[180ls1]

Then you're left with a really narrow FOV, very average glass, and an ergonomic nightmare. I can't believe Sig sells any of those things.

Yes, they have their downsides, just like everything else. I was just clarifying the "battery dependent" part of your statement.

Whats the failure rate like on them?

 

[4th_point]

Guesstimates:
40’of my time glassing is on a tripod

Average distance- 500 yds, max distance 3 miles

Probably hours wise, 50% wide open west

Let's review the 3 mile requirement next.

In the pic below, the pyramid shape at the end of the ridge in the distance is ~2.9 miles. Sun was rising from the right, and you can already see the haze and junk in the air.

Once higher, the sun backlights that entire ridgeline and is hell on optics prone to veiling glare. That's where any optic with noticeable veiling glare is a showstopper for me. Game can be active in the shadows, even with the sun high, but you'll be looking towards the sun (i.e. backlit hillsides). It don't matter how beautiful the image is, if you can't glass backlit scenes - unless you never hunt under those conditions.

You can sometimes mitigate the glare with shades/covers/hat, but not always.

The haze is also a problem, for all optics. However, lower quality optics already have aberrations (optically) and when you add in environmental aberrations (haze), it is even worse. Don't forget that there might be forest fire smoke or dust in the air too.

So under good conditions, you need a really good spotter to view detail at 3 miles. With clean air and a really well corrected scope, you can view 3 miles and beyond with sufficient magnification.

So if you truly need to view at 3 miles, then it's going to take a big scope. That's where I would focus your attention, but you may want to really think if 3 miles is realistic for you.

In that pic below, if I saw a buck of a lifetime at the end of the ridge it would take a long time to get there. It's a lot rougher than it looks in the picture!

 

[4th_point]

PS - the 10x SIG non-HDX show a lot of mirage compared to 8x SLC and 8x Kowa Genesis. Much is due to the extra 2x, but also the optical quality and correction. So a decent 8x would be usable, when the SIG were not. That's huge, but it might not matter depending on how you use them.