Retuned and lost a lot of sight tape yardage?

[RC_]

Hoping some of you can help me figure this out. I put new strings and cables on my bow and set about tuning it the way I have in the past. I will list my setup and tuning steps below but the short of it is that after tuning I have lost a lot of range on my sight tape (sight set to what used to be 40 yards to hit at 30 with the new tune). I always build a new tape after tuning because you're usually off a couple yards but this seems excessive to me.


Setup

• Hoyt Axius Ultra
  1. Drawing 67 lbs
  2. 31.5" draw
  3. ATA and brace height are in spec
• QAD dropaway (basic version w/ no microadjust)
• Fast Eddie XL Double Pin
• RIP TKO 250 shafts cut 30 inches with Victory 50gr half outs and 100gr field points. AAE prohunter fletchings a generic wrap (may be a little over spined but bow has tuned great with these before)

Tuning Process

1. Measure distance from grip to nocking point at full draw and measure distance from peep to nocking point on old strings (maybe should have measured nocking point from end of cams or something to have an even better starting point)
2. Put on new strings and cables and tie on a d-loop
3. Check timing and adjust until cams are hitting stops in sync
4. Time rest so that it comes all the way up in the last 2 inches of the draw cycle
5. Center shot set to 13/16"
6. Using a bow vice and levels on the string and arrow set nocking point so arrow is dead level.
7. Put peep sight on and set to same distance from nock set as previous set of strings
8. Shoot through paper until I have a bullet hole with a fletched shaft (move d-loop up or down to adjust for tail high/low and use yokes for left and right)
9. Shoot through paper until I have a bullet hole with a bareshaft
10. Tie in nock sets (usually this is good enough to get good boradhead flight but can take it a step further)

Now this is where things got interesting - I went to bareshaft at 20 yards and my fletched and bare arrows were hitting significantly lower than I expected but I went through and bare shaft tuned having to drop my rest a bit to get bareshafts flying the same as fletched. So the bow seems to be shooting darts but I'm having to start my sight much lower than previously to achieve the same yardages.

At full draw, distance from center of the shaft to center of the peep is maybe 1/8 to 3/16 lower than before, did I maybe change my anchor slightly and not realize? Would this amount throw off my trajectory/sight radius so significantly? I would also note that when I was done tuning, the arrow is no longer level but the nock point is probably 1/8" higher than the rest and I reverified with the levels. (Can't say how this compares to before since this is the first time I've had access to a vice and levels.) I likely still have more than enough yardage for hunting and the bow seems to be shooting well but the fact something seems so significantly off has my hair up and obviously being able to launch bombs a 100+ on the practice range is fun.

 

[Jbehredt]

I read quickly and may be wrong but it sounds like you just need to raise your peep.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

Adjust the sight until you're hitting behind the pin at the top end of the tape (20 yds, I presume) then shoot at longer distances. If you're on at 20 yds but hitting progressively lower as you move back, that would indicate something changed to reduce arrow speed (i.e., decreased draw weight or increased arrow weight). If you sight in at 20 yds and the rest of the tape is still on, that would indicate something caused your "zero point" to change (i.e., rest elevation, d-loop location, or peep location changed) but arrow speed is the same.

 

[MattB]

Are you perhaps confusing the loss of range (which means that your bow’s speed would have slowed so the distance between marks would have increased) with a change in where your arrows hit at various distances per your sight tape?

Sounds to me like your before/after measurements are a little off, doesn’t take much at the bow (1/8”?) to be pretty far off at 30-40 yards. Either you tied in your loop a touch high or the loop to peep distance is off. I would re-measure as compared to your old string.

As said above, I would move sight until on at 20 and then shoot 40 to see if your sight tape is actually off. If so, back to the set-up/tuning drawing board.

 

[RC_]

Thanks guys. Bow is shooting within 2 fps of where it was before swapping strings since setup is the same so trajectory should be roughly the same.

MattB- to your point my “loss of range” isn’t due to speed but more in where my sight/peep are starting which will limit how low I can drop the sight before running into clearance issues.

Sounds like I I should start by moving my peep up slightly and see if it’s comfortable or if anchor feels off. (Possible I ended up shooting to where the peep was and was moving my anchor and didn’t realize.) Depending on that maybe move nock set a little lower or just retune. I’m a head case with this stuff and just wanted to see if I was missing something before potentially starting over.

 

[MattB]

One thing to think about is, if you are just changing out cabling, I wouldn’t touch the rest until after shooting field points. Setting the rest position is a good step when first setting up/tuning a new bow, but IMO adds unnecessary complexity in your situation. Rather, I would use the old rest position to help validation the new nock position. Your predicament may in some degree be based on moving more things than you have to with the new cabling.

 

[Tilzbow]

You stated in your original post that you verified cam timing. It could be your cams weren’t in time before you changed the cables. Even a 1/8” difference in timing can have a pretty profound impact on nock height.

 

[dkime]

Here’s some of my feedback, I tried to copy your post to make it easy.

New string, speed nock location on a Hoyt is important. It will change the tune that is required.


4. RIP TKO 250 shafts cut 30 inches with Victory 50gr half outs and 100gr field points.


This is too much arrow in my opinion for what you’re shooting


3. Check timing and adjust until cams are hitting stops in sync

Were the cams timed perfectly before? were they timed with the QAD cord attached or not attached?


4. Time rest so that it comes all the way up in the last 2 inches of the draw cycle.

This is too much support, you’re increasing the load on the control cable for the bottom cam and thus slowing the bottom cam down. This creates a false timing condition where the top cam is actually hitting ahead of the bottom cam, even though they appear to be making contact at the same time.

easy test, bow in draw board. crank it until the draw stops just start to make contact. then release the set screw that is attached to the activation cord on the rest. the lower control cable will then move slightly.


Tie in nock sets (usually this is good enough to get good boradhead flight but can take it a step further)

equal nock sets top and bottom?



At full draw, distance from center of the shaft to center of the peep is maybe 1/8 to 3/16 lower than before, did I maybe change my anchor slightly and not realize? Would this amount throw off my trajectory/sight radius so significantly?

Yes it changes the launch angle that is required. This is probably most of your issue, but if your are shooting well with this angle then don’t alter it.


I would also note that when I was done tuning, the arrow is no longer level but the nock point is probably 1/8" higher than the rest and I reverified with the levels.

Not a big deal nor uncommon


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[Bump79]

4. RIP TKO 250 shafts cut 30 inches with Victory 50gr half outs and 100gr field points.


This is too much arrow in my opinion for what you’re shooting

This is perfectly fine with a 31.5" draw and 30" arrow and 150 up front. Perfectly spined in my opinion. He could even pull off a 200 spine.

 

[dkime]

This is perfectly fine with a 31.5" draw and 30" arrow and 150 up front. Perfectly spined in my opinion. He could even pull off a 200 spine.

That bow has a real world speed equivalent to 320IBO, just the same as every Hoyt Ultra that came before it. Yes feel free to shoot an overly stiff arrow, feel free to kiss your sister, idc.


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[Bump79]

That bow has a real world speed equivalent to 320IBO, just the same as every Hoyt Ultra that came before it. Yes feel free to shoot an overly stiff arrow, feel free to kiss your sister, idc.


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Settle down - You're just stating your opinion. This spine calculator is roughly calibrated to a his Hoyt Ultra based on a real world speeds. He's slightly stiff but spine is not a problem at all for his setup and didn't need mentioned. Everything else you said was fine.