Retriever training help

[Camoflash]

Good looking pup

 

[JMitchell121]

You force fetch after solid obedience and all adult teeth are in. That said it’s not for a rank amateur trainer. You better have a mentor that is a solid trainer to help you, or you might do more harm then good on the pup.

I think you need to set goals of what you want for this pup and get a program and follow it accordingly. Good luck and have fun.

 

[Mosby]

Lots of information and different philosophies on dog training. Read a lot and see if there is a quality trainer near you home you can go to for help. Don't be in a hurry to have him spayed. Wait until he is at least 24 months regardless of what your vet says.

One thing that is often overlooked when you get a pup is dog food. Buy quality dog food. I know guys that spend thousands on a dog and training and then feed the cheapest food they can find. Doesn't make sense to me. Quality dog food isn't that much more expensive than Ol Roy. Find a quality puppy food for the first few months or an all life stages food that you can stay with. I normally go with Purina Pro Plan or Victor. That is what most of the breeders and trainers I know use and is available in most areas. There are other quality brands. Some dog people have really strong opinions about dog food.

Hunting dogs are like any other athlete. They need a high protein and high fat diet. Research has proven that the high protein feed can reduce injuries and improve recovery. Dogs fed over a 20% fat content find more birds than those that aren't. Dogs get their energy from fat. Calories matter. Some dogs can't keep weight on. Others get to heavy. Some do well on certain dog foods. Others don't. It worth figuring out what works well for your dog.

Make it fun for both of you. Stay patient. Enjoy the process.

 

[Wingshooter]

I force fetch train some of my labs but only if they make a habit of dropping birds on the way back with most retrievers the bird in their mouth is their prize. My 5 year old female just had a litter of yellow labs I will keep 1. She will get to go on walks and get teased by duck wings always leave a pup wanting more if you send a dog on a retrieve and they slow up on the way back cut the session off. A tip I have used when working with young pups on their first retrieves is to throw the dummy down a hallway with no way out other than back to you. The pup should come back naturally. Try to be his buddy not a yelling jerk. Don't talk too much if the dog doesn't respond he most likely doesn't understand. If you can't train a dog without a collar you won't be any good with one and your dog will suffer the only reason to hit a dog with a shock collar is if they have broke on a deer or are running towards a road. If you associate electricity with birds your in trouble.

 

[Two Roads]

Highly recommend Water Dog book. It is old so you will need to source it. Labs are literally pre programmed to learn at specific intervals of age by days. You are right at front end and this is great opportunity to capitalize. We have had 4 labs over the years, each retrieves what is shot. I have had friends send their dogs to finishing school and chuckle at the waste of money. Tennis balls, a check cord and some patient time will create a buddy for life. If you want to work with play fetch now just use short nap paint roller. Do it in the house in a hallway. All this force fetch BS is a people problem, bet they taught their kids and wife to force fetch. And pinched their ear too. “I want my beer served on the right side and you damn well better hold it until I am ready.” Labs biggest reward is pleasing you but they are their own dog too. Use that to advantage. Mutual respect, they know who pays bills.

When you can, clip short leash to you so they come along inside and outside. ALWAYS keep lessons short and fun. Always stop training session drills before they want to. Use patience, they are very sensitive to your feelings, body language, tone and facial expressions. Key in on that and pay attention. Watch how they watch you when you laugh to understand this, watch their eyes. Look them in the eye and tell them you love them. They also are tough and will go thru hell and back for you, enough so that you may need to protect them from themselves. Remember, they develop the vocabulary of a 5 year old.

 

[KurtR]

I force fetch train some of my labs but only if they make a habit of dropping birds on the way back with most retrievers the bird in their mouth is their prize. My 5 year old female just had a litter of yellow labs I will keep 1. She will get to go on walks and get teased by duck wings always leave a pup wanting more if you send a dog on a retrieve and they slow up on the way back cut the session off. A tip I have used when working with young pups on their first retrieves is to throw the dummy down a hallway with no way out other than back to you. The pup should come back naturally. Try to be his buddy not a yelling jerk. Don't talk too much if the dog doesn't respond he most likely doesn't understand. If you can't train a dog without a collar you won't be any good with one and your dog will suffer the only reason to hit a dog with a shock collar is if they have broke on a deer or are running towards a road. If you associate electricity with birds your in trouble.

So your saying the top trainers in the country are no good because they use a collar to train? It’s a tool and when used right a great one. Every weekend it’s proven that you can use a collar to train and have the best dogs in the country at hunt tests and field trials.

 

[KurtR]

Highly recommend Water Dog book. It is old so you will need to source it. Labs are literally pre programmed to learn at specific intervals of age by days. You are right at front end and this is great opportunity to capitalize. We have had 4 labs over the years, each retrieves what is shot. I have had friends send their dogs to finishing school and chuckle at the waste of money. Tennis balls, a check cord and some patient time will create a buddy for life. If you want to work with play fetch now just use short nap paint roller. Do it in the house in a hallway. All this force fetch BS is a people problem, bet they taught their kids and wife to force fetch. And pinched their ear too. “I want my beer served on the right side and you damn well better hold it until I am ready.” Labs biggest reward is pleasing you but they are their own dog too. Use that to advantage. Mutual respect, they know who pays bills.

When you can, clip short leash to you so they come along inside and outside. ALWAYS keep lessons short and fun. Always stop training session drills before they want to. Use patience, they are very sensitive to your feelings, body language, tone and facial expressions. Key in on that and pay attention. Watch how they watch you when you laugh to understand this, watch their eyes. Look them in the eye and tell them you love them. They also are tough and will go thru hell and back for you, enough so that you may need to protect them from themselves. Remember, they develop the vocabulary of a 5 year old.

Funny you mention that book and then say ff is bs. Did you know Wolters and others from back then had a piece of paper for what distance they shot at the dog with a shot gun. It was the old school ecollar.

 

[PredatorSlayer]

the only reason to hit a dog with a shock collar is if they have broke on a deer or are running towards a road. If you associate electricity with birds your in trouble.

This just depends on the breed. You get a good upland dog with a ton of drive and verbal commands or a whistle doesn’t do anything. My GSP is very well trained, I can take him into Home Depot or TSC without a leash, always listens. I take him out after pheasants or quail and he gets on scent and not even vibrate will pull him off or stop him from looking. Sometimes he gets really obstinate and I have to turn it up - its like FU, I am going to find this damn bird. Sometimes I let him do his thing and try and keep up, he always finds the birds...its just not always on property I can shoot or most the time I don’t love jogging while pheasant hunting, thus the zap to keep him closer.

 

[Wingshooter]

So your saying the top trainers in the country are no good because they use a collar to train? It’s a tool and when used right a great one. Every weekend it’s proven that you can use a collar to train and have the best dogs in the country at hunt tests and field trials.

To each his own I have seen collars abused more than I have seen them benefit dogs in general. The top trainers could do a good job without one. I am not a field trial guy my dogs are my hunting buddies that do a better job of bringing birds back to me than I do knocking them down.

 

[Spence14]

Water Dog DVD. Has been a go to in the dog training community for years. It takes you from learning to play with your new puppy and start instilling excitement for retrieving all the way to a finished retriever. It's clearly laid out in chapters that relate to the training material at a particular age and builds on it as they get older. You won't regret it.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Funny you mention that book and then say ff is bs. Did you know Wolters and others from back then had a piece of paper for what distance they shot at the dog with a shot gun. It was the old school ecollar.

That was D. L Walters, not Richard Wolters. Both have passed.

D. L. Walters was a professional field trial trainer who published the book Training Retrievers to Handle and was a fan of walking baseball and pattern blinds and did use a cattle prod, sling shot, and shotgun. Old school.

Richard Wolters was an amateur who was among those that started the North American Hunting Retriever Association (NAHRA). He was a fan of getting a pup at 49 days and starting teaching a pup from day 1.

 

[KurtR]

That was D. L Walters, not Richard Wolters. Both have passed.

D. L. Walters was a professional field trial trainer who published the book Training Retrievers to Handle and was a fan of walking baseball and pattern blinds and did use a cattle prod, sling shot, and shotgun. Old school.

Richard Wolters was an amateur who was among those that started the North American Hunting Retriever Association (NAHRA). He was a fan of getting a pup at 49 days and starting teaching a pup from day 1.

You are right I messed the names up. It just shows how much training has came along and much more humane.

for the people looking for programs there is so much updated and progressive stuff than waterdog today. If collars aren’t your thing cornerstone kennels has the program. If more traditional mike lardy, Danny farmer and Dennis voight have great programs from the field trial side. Freddy kings program for 60 bucks with all the videos on line is hard to beat on the hunt test side. Joining a local hrc is a great resource also.

I guess it all comes down to what you want. Got hooked on the hunt test game and grhrch is the goal.

 

[AK_Skeeter]

You are right I messed the names up. It just shows how much training has came along and much more humane.

for the people looking for programs there is so much updated and progressive stuff than waterdog today. If collars aren’t your thing cornerstone kennels has the program. If more traditional mike lardy, Danny farmer and Dennis voight have great programs from the field trial side. Freddy kings program for 60 bucks with all the videos on line is hard to beat on the hunt test side. Joining a local hrc is a great resource also.

I guess it all comes down to what you want. Got hooked on the hunt test game and grhrch is the goal.

Yes I've trained retrievers for 40 years and it is interesting to see how training has changed.

James Lamb Free's book first published in 1949: "If your dog is a year or more old, and has his 2-week course in obedience, he is ready to start retrieving"

D.L. Walters book published in 1979 with advice on using slingshots, cattle prod, and shotguns to train retrievers. Many chapters on pattern blinds, none on cold blinds.

The Dobbs Tri-tronics book in the 1990s with a cold burn approach instead of using indirect e-collar pressure.

James Spencer's books in the 1990s which advocated routinely repeating marks to "calibrate" the retriever,
then wrote about how to "switch-proof" a retriever (switching problem likely initiated by repeating marks).
Avoidance of real cold blinds by using a white traffic cone as a target, then removing.

There are more efficient methods to teach and train retrievers....

 

[Billinsd]

Richard Wolters was an amateur who was among those that started the North American Hunting Retriever Association (NAHRA). He was a fan of getting a pup at 49 days and starting teaching a pup from day 1.

He was an eccentric outdoors author who paid people to train his dogs and then wrote books on how to do it. I talked to a trainer who witnessed the dogs he trained himself at events. She said they were a spectacle back in the 60s, in that they ran around out of control, while Wolters in his big floppy pants chased after them. His methods from the 60s are outdated and there are MUCH better, and modern books and videos. Rex Carr was a brilliant trainer who developed a process in the late sixties that is the basis for almost every successful retriever trainer in the United States today. https://ybsmedia.com/carr-retriever-training-seminar.php The best trainer I've found for novices is Evan Graham and his Smartworks. https://www.gundogsupply.com/evan-g...5HrLZHobJN_bI3LGvs8_I_DcvzX9MKQcaAmgDEALw_wcB However, dog training, especially e collars and force fetching can be extremely difficult for novices. I force fetched three of my dogs. Force fetch is a command. It doesn't matter how good or not your dog's natural retrieve is you will go through a point that your dog will rebel during force fetch to some degree and you work through it, however many days it takes. When completed correctly fetch as a command means fetch just like sit means sit and your dog will do it no matter what!! Force fetch cements the relationship between master and dog like no other command because it is the most difficult by far to complete. Skilled trainers complete force fetch and obedience training with just enough pressure and are not heavy handed and clumsy.

 

[Billinsd]

To each his own I have seen collars abused more than I have seen them benefit dogs in general. The top trainers could do a good job without one. I am not a field trial guy my dogs are my hunting buddies that do a better job of bringing birds back to me than I do knocking them down.

No one has to use a e-collars. Yes, they are terrible in the wrong hands. Yes, many miss use them. The top trainers use e collars, because they are top trainers. You don't need to be a field trailer to use a e-collar. Whatever obedience you are happy with your dog is fantastic. Don't say or insinuate that people that train their dogs WELL are only field trailers. Many hunters want well trained dogs. It's fine to not have a well trained dog. My pointer is well trained, however I didn't force fetch train him, because I don't take him waterfowl hunting and he does a good enough job retrieving for me. He's got a fantastic prey drive, ball drive, retrieving instinct. The more obedience training, the more pressure, electronic and other takes a bit away from the dog. That's why breading is so important. I want a BIDABLE dog, that's ENERGETIC, and has a extremely high PREY DRIVE, that's not SOFT and on the SENSITIVE side a wee bit, not overly so to pressure and the e-collar. That's a dog I want.

 

[Billinsd]

Hey guys I just got a new pup that likes to retrieve and I want to train him to retrieve birds and squirrel he’s only about 6 weeks and he does ok with sitting and seems to pick up on things I want him to do fairly easily. I’m just looking for any advice on this as I don’t want to ruin a good pup. Thanks

At 6 weeks old, this is a fantastic video. https://www.gundogsupply.com/soberetrdvdw.html two more good books https://www.gundogsupply.com/b10mirehowto.html

Retriever Puppy Training

Retriever Puppy Training presents a program of basic training that will turn young retrievers into efficient and enthusiastic hunting companions. A step-by-step teaching schedule provides the continuity so important to fostering a puppy’s confidence. A favorite with people starting out...

books.google.com

 

[KurtR]

He was an eccentric outdoors author who paid people to train his dogs and then wrote books on how to do it. I talked to a trainer who witnessed the dogs he trained himself at events. She said they were a spectacle back in the 60s, in that they ran around out of control, while Wolters in his big floppy pants chased after them. His methods from the 60s are outdated and there are MUCH better, and modern books and videos. Rex Carr was a brilliant trainer who developed a process in the late sixties that is the basis for almost every successful retriever trainer in the United States today. https://ybsmedia.com/carr-retriever-training-seminar.php The best trainer I've found for novices is Evan Graham and his Smartworks. https://www.gundogsupply.com/evan-g...5HrLZHobJN_bI3LGvs8_I_DcvzX9MKQcaAmgDEALw_wcB However, dog training, especially e collars and force fetching can be extremely difficult for novices. I force fetched three of my dogs. Force fetch is a command. It doesn't matter how good or not your dog's natural retrieve is you will go through a point that your dog will rebel during force fetch to some degree and you work through it, however many days it takes. When completed correctly fetch as a command means fetch just like sit means sit and your dog will do it no matter what!! Force fetch cements the relationship between master and dog like no other command because it is the most difficult by far to complete. Skilled trainers complete force fetch and obedience training with just enough pressure and are not heavy handed and clumsy.

There is a book about Rex carr hopefully coming out soon. I am looking forward to reading that.

 

[Billinsd]

There is a book about Rex carr hopefully coming out soon. I am looking forward to reading that.

Vickie Lamb is working on that book. https://www.vickielamboutdoors.com/about
Here is a tribute to Rex Carr https://billhillmann.net/2015/12/07/a-tribute-to-rex-carr/

 

[AK_Skeeter]

Vickie Lamb is working on that book. https://www.vickielamboutdoors.com/about
Here is a tribute to Rex Carr https://billhillmann.net/2015/12/07/a-tribute-to-rex-carr/

Vickie Lamb has been working on that book since 2010....

Rex Carr invented birdboy blinds, swim-by, tune-up drills and so much more.
He mentored Judy Aycock who then mentored Danny Farmer.
Dave Rorem, Evan Graham and several other pro trainers were mentored by Rex Carr.