Rem 700 Bedding Problem

[bradb]

first one I pulled up. At least check Richards pic on the main page. That is the look your going for......now looks are not always everything
Stress free is the end result.

 

[parshal]

...no contact at rear of tang...

When you say no contact at the tang you don't mean no bedding material on the tang, do you? The tang only contacts the bedding material on this one.

I kinda figured I was going to re-do this just as I posted the pictures. Appreciate all the replies!

 

[bradb]

I only mean at the very end. Don't make it another recoil lug. Sorry for being brief to much to get done at work

 

[bradb]

http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

oops for got link

 

[Jason Snyder]

http://www.6mmbr.com/pillarbedding.html

 

[parshal]

Before I started this thread I emails Browns and I sent him these pictures today. Mark called me this morning and talked to me for probably 30 minutes. I thought I'd post what he said.

He said the bedding job looked fine from a functional perspective and there's enough coverage. He said he couldn't tell if the bedding job were good but only that it had enough coverage. He said none of his guns would go out looking like this but that it would work from a functional perspective. To paraphrase, it looks like sh!t but should work.

He said relieve the front, edges and bottom of the recoil lug, relieve a little more around the screw holes, torque to 30 inch pounds on the rear and 35 in the front and see how much movement I get on the fore end when I remove the front screw. If more than .005" re-bed. If not, go shoot it. If it doesn't shoot right, re-bed.

 

[bradb]

I agree with what he said. Heck I had a top end benchrest smith only bed the lug and tang. I said I like full length bedding and most you will see do full length. Did you tape off clearances at side of lug and bottom?DO! Did you tighten screws when bedding? DON"T! Did you tape the barrel for float? DO! Did you make sure the screws had tape wrapped around to be sure of no contact with sides? DO! Did you make sure of no other binds in the action and bottom metal? Do! Did you use a very very think coating of release agent? Do, at least on critical areas. Again looks are not everything as long as its stress free. But when you bring up the loss of accuracy it brings into question more then just the looks. I sure as hell didn't have my first couple come out pretty and re did more then one! Got to run.

 

[parshal]

Did you tape off clearances at side of lug and bottom?DO!

I did.

Did you tighten screws when bedding? DON"T!

This I don't remember. Possibly.

Did you tape the barrel for float? DO!

I did.

Did you make sure the screws had tape wrapped around to be sure of no contact with sides? DO!

I did not.

Did you make sure of no other binds in the action and bottom metal? Do!

I'd have to re-do to ensure this although I don't see anything touching the stock/bedding material except for the tang/action.

Did you use a very very think coating of release agent? Do, at least on critical areas.

I did.

Again looks are not everything as long as its stress free. But when you bring up the loss of accuracy it brings into question more then just the looks.

Exactly what Mark was saying.

 

[KMD]

parshal, aside from the tiny chips atop the pillars, this is what I strive for in a bedding job.
Micky GameScout on my 22-243AI, just about cleaned up and ready. Just needs some fine sanding along the flat edges...

Clearance for front, sides and bottom of recoil lug, perfect match and full contact to back of lug
Free floated barrel channel, right to the front of the lug
Full contact between action and stock
And "stress free" when torqued down. I snug to 65 in.lbs. with machined pillars.
Snug them alternately, front to back, in 10 in.lbs. steps, working up to 65.

Before going completely anal OCD and re-bedding to fix those tiny chips, I shot the rifle. Thankfully, I didn't notice accuracy to be lacking, shoots like a friggin' laser. That's what counts!!!


When you try again, here's some pointers:

Use modeling clay to 'dam up' areas you don't want bedding to go!

Don't 'over-mix' the bedding compound, it may introduce air bubbles into the epoxy that will create voids.

Tape the front, sides and bottom of recoil lug with a single layer of masking tape. A SHARP Exacto knife is your friend to trim flush!

Use 'stock-makers screws' to insure that the barreled action and bottom metal are oriented properly in the stock. I cut the heads off 3", 1/4x28 screws, which thread into a Remmy 700 action. The bottom metal will slide onto headless screws, centering the bottom metal with the action.
(I suspect this could be where your original job is being stressed when snugged down?)

Put a thin layer of release agent on everything metal, including stock-makers screws! I use Johnson's floor wax paste.

Once you've got the barreled action sitting in the stock at the correct height, build up tape around the barrel, right at the nose of the stock. This will help support the barrel, and prevent the barreled action from 'tipping' forward while the bedding cures. Only add enough to keep the barrel from 'tipping' forward under its own weight!!

Use WD-40, and lots of Q-tips to clean up bedding that squishes out around barreled action.

Use surge tube, or rubber bands, to hold the barreled action in place while the bedding cures.
You don't want to add any stress to the bedding while it cures!
Just enough to keep pressure to keep the barreled action from moving, NO MORE!

When cleaning up, drill out the action screw holes, so there's not contact with the screws.



You'll get it right, keep after it!
Good luck!!!

 

[bradb]

Good write up!!

a neat trick I like on trimming the tape on the lug is not to use a knife but instead take a hammer or something similar and tap the edge of the lug all around were you want the tape removed. The tape will peal off very nicely and I find it easier then cutting it.

 

[parshal]

That sure is a pretty job right there!

I relieved a bunch of material around the front, sides and bottom of the lug and around the screws. I also ground the magazine down since I could see it hitting the metal on the trigger plate. I'm going to shoot it like this and see what happens. If bad, I'll remove the magazine to see if it makes a difference. If I can't get a decent group it'll get re-bed and, hopefully, look at lot more like yours.

The last pic is my attempt at showing how little thread contact there is for the action screws. You can see that pretty well in the first two pics with the screws.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I've done a couple of bedding jobs and they all turned out "OK" but when a friend of mine does this kind of work....................I'll gladly pay him. As the saying goes, "there's professionals in life for a reason."

Randy

 

[KMD]

Beautiful!
True, ya get what ya pay for...

Parshal, I believe there's a simple explanation as to why those action screws are "too short".

When you bed a stock, you need to remove material from the stock in the areas where the bedding compound will occupy. Without removing material, the bedding compound is going to build those areas up higher than original, NOT GOOD.
In short, you need to create a " void" in the stock, for the bedding compound to fill, while maintaining the original height of the action in the stock.

Here's a pic of my stock, before bedding. Notice how I Used a Dremel to relieve the stock enough, so that the action is resting solely on the pillars.

Without having removed that stock material to create a void for the bedding compound to fill up, the action would sit too high in the stock.
Make sense?

In your bedding job pics, it looks like you just mixed the epoxy and spread it on behind the lug and on the tang. By doing so, the barreled action has now been built up higher than should be, which is why your screws are too short. You need to get enough material out of the stock, so that the bedding compound creates a perfect 'level' between the action and
stock.
Here's my finished rifle. Notice how the ejection port of the action is perfectly even with the stock.

I suspect that your action is sitting too high in your bedded stock.
Can you take a close up pic of your ejection port location, with the action sitting in the stock?
We'll get ya squared away...

 

[Shrek]

KMD , that's a beautiful rifle ! A McMillan Game Scout with edge fill is in my future. I have so many more wants than I've got gots !

 

[Shrek]

Parshal , that is a definite grind out now that I'm looking with fresh eyes. Unless it's an affect of the pictures there is a rub spot at the front left of the front bed patch. It's bending the action and only touching there. Do not use the crappy accraglas release agent or the accraglas for that matter. I have always used kiwi neutral rubbed on but this last time I took the Internet advice and use Hornady OneShot case lube and it worked great. Either way they both beat the accraglas release agent with a stick.

 

[Ironman8]

KMD,

How much material are you removing from the stock? And how do you ensure that you remove an even amount of material so that there's not a cant from front to back or back to front?

Very nice stick BTW!

 

[Shrek]

I can't speak for KMD but I want a 1/16-1/8 all around the action and a little more behind the recoil lug and under the front action screw area. KMD has pillars already set but if not then tape buit up at the front of the stock and under the tang to set the height and center it. Or remove material from under the tang if necessary. I've never had to put much under a tang to level an action. Goal is to have none of the stock touch the action only bedding. The relief you make should be rough with plenty of mechanical lock.

 

[wapitibob]

I pre assemble the action, to the previously bedded pillars and check for alignment and clearance. For better or worse, I also bed the sides of the recoil lug to provide rotational resistance at the shot.

 

[parshal]

I shot it again today and there were some good groups but lots of flyers. I had to tighten the rear screw twice so longer screw will definitely help. I won't have those until mid to late next week. I'm fighting my urge to re-bed it and changing only one thing at a time (the screws) but I'm sure I'll end up doing it again. I never did like the look of the tang when I first bedded it.

 

[dotman]

No offense taken at all. That's the first time I've done this. Time to re-do!

Nathan has a great video of how to bed the bdl http://www.ballisticstudies.com

Direct link http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase/Bedding+a+Rifle+With+MatchGrade+Bedding+Compound.html