Reluctantly Obliging Matt Rinella

[KurtR]

They seem to be totally fine with animals that were killed by someone that employed a posse to watch the critter year round and also with people killing near tame town animals. To me those issues are problematic but the record orgs seem to not care

How many animals is that in a year? Out of the thousands killed it probably doesn’t even move the needle.

 

[TheTone]

How many animals is that in a year? Out of the thousands killed it probably doesn’t even move the needle.

True, but when the orgs feature the critters as some type of conservation success story that’s where I start to question things

 

[Hnthrdr]

I think a lot gets lost on what HQ is trying to do… lots of hearsay. I do think that hunters agree with a lot of what he is saying but we should all agree with what he is doing. The hunters for access is actively trying to open up more access for hunting. This should be the goal of all hunting orgs, well beyond R3…

 

[Hnthrdr]

Shameless plug for Hunters for access raffle! Don’t live in a state with a chapter, yet but everyone should check out this raffle… to my detriment there are some great prizes which I’m in for as well

https://huntersforaccess.betterworld.org/

 

[Minute_of_Antelope]

It really is ridiculous. I’ve passed on 300 yard shots and taken shots well past 500.

Hell I’ve passed on 50 yards shots come to think of it.

Animal behavior, weather/wind, shooting position all come into the decision.

All that being said, I get really selective past 500 and I’m not quite sure I’d go too far beyond 600 even when everything is perfect, despite being into long range shooting as a hobby.

But that’s me, and I’m not gonna put my personal ethics on someone else.

100%. My thoughts and experience to a T.

 

[KurtR]

True, but when the orgs feature the critters as some type of conservation success story that’s where I start to question things

I guess I could see it both ways. Having big animals is kind of a success story but not attainable by most average people.

 

[Winnie]

One thing not often talked about is how long the bullet or arrow is in flight. Every micro-second that bullet takes to get there the odds of that animal moving increase. So yeah, some people can shoot 1,000 yards at paper, but paper doesn't all of a sudden decide that forb looks mighty tasty, I think I will take a step and eat it---and boom there is a hit in the paunch or hind quarter.

The other thing is that guys that shoot long distance at the range don't have to contend with is uneven winds, thermals, etc that might be different a half dozen places along the path of the bullet. How many times have you read about a hunter that all of sudden felt a draft on the back of his neck that resulted in the animal smelling the hunter and bolting? What are the odds then, that a draft like that could happen somewhere along the long path of the bullet?

 

[PredatorSlayer]

Accuracy is only one part of that argument. I could nail 700+ shots all day; I am confident and competent at that range. Ethics, in terms of fair chase, come into play as well. Say you were competent and accurate at a mile. Absurd, I know, but is it really hunting at that point? Where is the cutoff? If the animal has no chance to detect you and escape, is it fair chase? Just because you can make a shot doesn't necessarily mean you should.

What about late season cow elk hunts when the elk are down low and up to their chest in snow. Is that hunting at that point?

 

[KurtR]

One thing not often talked about is how long the bullet or arrow is in flight. Every micro-second that bullet takes to get there the odds of that animal moving increase. So yeah, some people can shoot 1,000 yards at paper, but paper doesn't all of a sudden decide that forb looks mighty tasty, I think I will take a step and eat it---and boom there is a hit in the paunch or hind quarter.

The other thing is that guys that shoot long distance at the range don't have to contend with is uneven winds, thermals, etc that might be different a half dozen places along the path of the bullet. How many times have you read about a hunter that all of sudden felt a draft on the back of his neck that resulted in the animal smelling the hunter and bolting? What are the odds then, that a draft like that could happen somewhere along the long path of the bullet?

It’s is talked about all the time. Tof is a huge subject that has been discussed in depth . Along with all the other environmental effects on bullets.

 

[Hnthrdr]

What about late season cow elk hunts when the elk are down low and up to their chest in snow. Is that hunting at that point?

Personally doesn’t feel like it to me, just killing, but if that’s how you want to get your meat that’s fine, or potentially for a youth or someone disabled might “feel” more like a hunt, everything is kind of on a sliding scale

 

[Snowwolfe]

I'm not saying you're wrong (or right) in this situation...

But that same logic has been used to maintain some objectively bad stuff, like segregation.

Sometimes years of experience can show the need for a change.

And you don't have 71 years of experience with social media.

Thank you for confirming my post.

 

[Fredcohunter]

For everyone who things there should be some restriction on what is ethical, what is fair chase, etc, etc who would you like to rely on to make the determination for you?

 

[Hnthrdr]

For everyone who things there should be some restriction on what is ethical, what is fair chase, etc, etc who would you like to rely on to make the determination for you?

I think this is why it’s sort of a guide or a rubric and not a law. Shouldn’t be a law but there should be guardrails that maybe we could look at and form our own ethics from, I mean we have to draw the line somewhere, even without laws on the books there are things that leave a bad taste in your mouth I’m sure, but once again on a sliding scale

 

[Fredcohunter]

I think this is why it’s sort of a guide or a rubric and not a law. Shouldn’t be a law but there should be guardrails that maybe we could look at and form our own ethics from, I mean we have to draw the line somewhere, even without laws on the books there are things that leave a bad taste in your mouth I’m sure, but once again on a sliding scale

Unfortunately hunting on the east coast I see a lot of things that leave a bad taste for sure. We already have laws about trespassing, spot lighting, baiting, bag limits, etc. What I dont want is for someone to predetermine how I hunt. Matt Rinella makes some good points, the problem is most of what he says is fantasyland level nonsense.

 

[Hnthrdr]

Unfortunately hunting on the east coast I see a lot of things that leave a bad taste for sure. We already have laws about trespassing, spot lighting, baiting, bag limits, etc. What I dont want is for someone to predetermine how I hunt. Matt Rinella makes some good points, the problem is most of what he says is fantasyland level nonsense.

What is fantasyland level nonsense? Care to share any examples? I hear this a lot which is why I dug into what he was talking about and what he stands for and i couldn’t find a whole lot that seemed ridiculous

 

[Dos Perros]

Make it law: wound an animal, cut your tag.

 

[Harvey_NW]

Make it law: wound an animal, cut your tag.

Abiding by the law in circumstances where it would be really hard to prove you broke it, is still just an ethical decision.

 

[Dos Perros]

Abiding by the law in circumstances where it would be really hard to prove you broke it, is still just an ethical decision.

Call it what you want, we do it every time we hunt.

 

[Fredcohunter]

What is fantasyland level nonsense? Care to share any examples? I hear this a lot which is why I dug into what he was talking about and what he stands for and i couldn’t find a whole lot that seemed ridiculous

He over simplifies issues related to property rights. He thinks that anyone who leases hunting land should "liberally" share with fellow hunters. These things sound good in theory but the issues are much more complicated and he does not acknowledge the complexities.

Here is an example, I am in a lease with 7 other hunters. All hunters are approved by the landowner, we are insured, we have agreed to abide by restrictions beyond what is legally required to hunt, etc. In Matt's world I should "liberally" share my lease. In the real world I would lose the lease.

I agree with him for the most part on hunting influencers and entertainment, but its not all evil. I would imagine his brother Steve with the Meateater Land Access Initiative is doing more for hunter access than Matt ever will. God forbid we acknowledge that an "influencer" might actually be doing some good.

When I listen to Matt I dont hear someone trying to seriously solve a problem, I hear a child having a temper tantrum.

 

[Hnthrdr]

He over simplifies issues related to property rights. He thinks that anyone who leases hunting land should "liberally" share with fellow hunters. These things sound good in theory but the issues are much more complicated and he does not acknowledge the complexities.

Here is an example, I am in a lease with 7 other hunters. All hunters are approved by the landowner, we are insured, we have agreed to abide by restrictions beyond what is legally required to hunt, etc. In Matt's world I should "liberally" share my lease. In the real world I would lose the lease.

I agree with him for the most part on hunting influencers and entertainment, but its not all evil. I would imagine his brother Steve with the Meateater Land Access Initiative is doing more for hunter access than Matt ever will. God forbid we acknowledge that an "influencer" might actually be doing some good.

When I listen to Matt I dont hear someone trying to seriously solve a problem, I hear a child having a temper tantrum.

Yep he gripes a bit… some of the gripes are justified, IMO I’m a western guy, haven’t dealt with leasing, except for waterfowl which has absolutely been destroyed by commercialization no doubt about it. Really his brother has. Giant platform to do a lot for access and does little to nothing… same with all these hunting companies. What is mossy oak or real tree or Sitka or kuiu doing for land access? Little to nothing, but they will start a land real estate biz to ensure wealthy folks and buy up hunting land and lock it up or buy it as an investment to lease. Like I said am a little foreign to the leasing game, born and raised in Co. I can tell you all the awareness and “influencers” and hype has done nothing but crowd colorado, cause point creep, cause shed hunting seasons, cause loss of access and loss of opportunity for both Res and Non res, the enjoyment of a 30 min video does little to ease the disappointment of not drawing a tag in a unit you live in or that was 0 points 5 years ago but is now 2+… just my perspective. Could be flawed, but lots of truth to what Matt is pushing and the fact that he is asking hard questions and pushing to open up access now instead of just griping about it, shows me he is putting his money where his mouth is.