I'm going to start loading for my AR15 and was wondering about die sets. I see RCBS sells 223 die sets as well as small base die sets. Is the small base die set needed for my AR and if so, does using the small base die set effect anything if I were to use this ammo in a bolt 223? I ran across a ton of LC brass and started prepping the military primer pockets to get a head start, but wasn't sure which die set is best suited.
Reloading for AR15
- Thread starter sdupontjr
- Start date
Doesn’t matter on die choice.
There’s a school of thought on full length sizing for the semi automatic rifle every loading. To help with magazine fit, feed, and extraction - the gun and ammo system is designed to not get you killed while messing with a malfunction.
For a bolt gun for hunting, and the AR for that matter, full length sizing with die bottoming out isn’t “necessary” or “optimal” for precision. It is working the brass a lot, and it’s creating extra headspace you may not want for capacity or precision’s sake.
Pick a die set. Buy it.
If all the brass you found is from the same gun, try chambering an unsized case in your rifle(s). If it chambers, and extracts, pick 10% of what you’ll load at random and try same thing. If they all chamber: put a piece of fired brass in shell holder and raise ram. Screw in sizing die until it touches shoulder. Lower ram. Screw in die another quarter turn to third of a turn. Set lock ring here. This will bump shoulder back .002-.003”. Adjust neck sizing and decapper accordingly. Size a case. Try chambering case in any gun Youll shoot it in. If you did that first, this is just a confirmation.
Load and shoot.
Repeat step above for first loading after fireforming in your gun.
Load and shoot.
From this point forward, you should be able to leave die in position permanently, helps to mark or scribe or leave it adjusted to this setting.
If the brass is from random guns, just full length size it the first time, with ram bottoming out on die(according to your die/press instructions).
Load and shoot in your gun.
Size according to the shoulder bump steps above.
Set die and maintain that setting.
If you don’t care about brass life, and don’t care about sub MOA group size for the AR, and you want to run the gun fast and hard, full length size every time, and toss brass after 2-3 loadings. .223 brass is cheap.
There’s a school of thought on full length sizing for the semi automatic rifle every loading. To help with magazine fit, feed, and extraction - the gun and ammo system is designed to not get you killed while messing with a malfunction.
For a bolt gun for hunting, and the AR for that matter, full length sizing with die bottoming out isn’t “necessary” or “optimal” for precision. It is working the brass a lot, and it’s creating extra headspace you may not want for capacity or precision’s sake.
Pick a die set. Buy it.
If all the brass you found is from the same gun, try chambering an unsized case in your rifle(s). If it chambers, and extracts, pick 10% of what you’ll load at random and try same thing. If they all chamber: put a piece of fired brass in shell holder and raise ram. Screw in sizing die until it touches shoulder. Lower ram. Screw in die another quarter turn to third of a turn. Set lock ring here. This will bump shoulder back .002-.003”. Adjust neck sizing and decapper accordingly. Size a case. Try chambering case in any gun Youll shoot it in. If you did that first, this is just a confirmation.
Load and shoot.
Repeat step above for first loading after fireforming in your gun.
Load and shoot.
From this point forward, you should be able to leave die in position permanently, helps to mark or scribe or leave it adjusted to this setting.
If the brass is from random guns, just full length size it the first time, with ram bottoming out on die(according to your die/press instructions).
Load and shoot in your gun.
Size according to the shoulder bump steps above.
Set die and maintain that setting.
If you don’t care about brass life, and don’t care about sub MOA group size for the AR, and you want to run the gun fast and hard, full length size every time, and toss brass after 2-3 loadings. .223 brass is cheap.
- Thread Starter
- #3
What I'm really after is buddy of mine is trying to line us up with a prairie dog shoot for next year. I can either by a new bolt gun, or see what kind of precision I can get with my Built AR15 1:7 twist. If I can get decent precision out of it, then I'm good. If not, then I'll go the other route.
I was given damn near a 500 LC brass from our local range. Sorted them out, all look fine. I have powder, primers, now the brass, just need some bullets for testing. So, I have a lot of the components already, just wasn't sure which die set.
I was given damn near a 500 LC brass from our local range. Sorted them out, all look fine. I have powder, primers, now the brass, just need some bullets for testing. So, I have a lot of the components already, just wasn't sure which die set.
It doesn’t matter pick one. No advantage to either of those two.
Full length size all of it once according to instructions one. Load and shoot. Don’t spend time on load work up here. Your brass will fire form to your AR. I’d pick low/mid charge, lod them all the same, and use to zero rifle and see how the gun shoots. Now your brass is fire formed to your gun. Bump shoulders back .002-.003. Use this brass to do your load development.
schweinstein
Lil-Rokslider
I use a basic Hornady die for 223. Do a full size reload every time. That is to say, I follow the basic instructions on how to size a case. Push the ram with just the shell holder in it all the way up. Like you were reloading a case. Leave it in its max position. Then screw in your 223 die until it stops at the shell holder. Back the ram off then screw the die down an additional 1/4 turn. Lock the die.
That is a traditional “full length size” operation. For Bolt guns i consider it “over sizing” but I want the extra tolerances for my gas guns as to avoid feeding issues etc.
I also use a cheap volumetric powder thrower. I do not weight every charge. Only check every 5 or so to make sure I’m within my desired +\-.
Doing this I can tell you it produces excellent results with my gas guns! Easily achieving 1moa accuracy at 500 yards!!!
The one thing I don’t skimp on is bullets. I use any brass I can find and regular small primers and I’ve been so impressed by the results.
It’s not complicated. Just get good high BC bullets 69grn to 80 grn and you won’t be disappointed!
Don’t be afraid of a compressed load either.
That is a traditional “full length size” operation. For Bolt guns i consider it “over sizing” but I want the extra tolerances for my gas guns as to avoid feeding issues etc.
I also use a cheap volumetric powder thrower. I do not weight every charge. Only check every 5 or so to make sure I’m within my desired +\-.
Doing this I can tell you it produces excellent results with my gas guns! Easily achieving 1moa accuracy at 500 yards!!!
The one thing I don’t skimp on is bullets. I use any brass I can find and regular small primers and I’ve been so impressed by the results.
It’s not complicated. Just get good high BC bullets 69grn to 80 grn and you won’t be disappointed!
Don’t be afraid of a compressed load either.
- Thread Starter
- #6
schweinstein
Lil-Rokslider
I love varget in my 223. Loose a little in max velocity because of the kernel size but it’s very consistent
Will be running some starting loads today with 69 tmk and varget to start off. Range brass cleaned, separated, ran full length (not small base).
16" 1:8 twist barrel will start at 23.5 and work up to 25.5 to see what the gun says.
Last edited:
I am right in that range with my accuracy load. Shoots very well with that combination, you will not be disappointed.
Are you running tmk or?
I have ran them in some bolt guns and in a 22 grendel, but wondering how well they will do on the 16" 223. I would think they will still do great on dogs and cats as well as some rocks and steel when playing some. May try to take it to s.d. this June for some prairie dogs. Last year the 260ai was a bit much, but all I had after the shoot.
I am using 69g smk’s. Don’t remember the exact charge of varget, but it’s in the range you are going to try. Used for range only, but that load in my AR is the most accurate rifle I own. Upper came from a national match shooter who thought it was a bit inconsistent. 20” Krieger barrel. Not sure the tmk was a thing when I developed that load. Probably 20 years ago.
sniper20
FNG
I had the same question years ago. Spoiler alert, I have a small base die.
I was told I didn't need it for my 223 or 308 brass. Biggest thing is depends on your rifle chamber. I'm guessing that a standard die will work for you just fine. However, I had some 308 brass that no matter how hard I cammed over the ram, would not chamber in my bolt rifle, nor my AR rifle.
Once I bought a small base die and ran my 308 brass through it (after it had been through my standard die), it sized the base down a lot more (I don't recall the exact size, but I did measure). Chambered just fine after that.
So my suggestion, get one. If you need it, you have it. If you don't you don't. Another trick you can try is shave a few thousands off the shell holder.
I was told I didn't need it for my 223 or 308 brass. Biggest thing is depends on your rifle chamber. I'm guessing that a standard die will work for you just fine. However, I had some 308 brass that no matter how hard I cammed over the ram, would not chamber in my bolt rifle, nor my AR rifle.
Once I bought a small base die and ran my 308 brass through it (after it had been through my standard die), it sized the base down a lot more (I don't recall the exact size, but I did measure). Chambered just fine after that.
So my suggestion, get one. If you need it, you have it. If you don't you don't. Another trick you can try is shave a few thousands off the shell holder.
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