Reload misfire help!

[rileybassman]

Wow I appreciate all the feedback everyone as well as the concern.
I'll add a couple of details and some more pics if I can from my phone lol.

He and I have been reloading together for about a year and I have about 200 rounds shot without an issue. We switched primers for this batch and he pulled the old ones to put these in...for what it's worth. I am new to reloading, so no flaming me lol.

He has been reloading for about 30 years, and would not claim to know it all, but he has some experience.

I don't have the money this year for reloading supplies, but am planning on it for next year. We did bring my rifle over, measure the COAL and work from 55 grains up to 57 in .5 increments.
This is this brasses third firing, and we both agreed they would be trimmed after this batch.

I do not know how to measure for headspace, I have calipers, so if there are any suggestions, I'll be happy to measure. My chamber max oal is 3.351 and we are loading an oal of 3.330 we worked up to that and watched for pressure.

So that is the back story. I checked them again tonight and the primer is noticeably flatter as opposed to the factory rounds.

In the pics, the case on left and round on left are hand load, the ones on the right are factory.

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In next pic, primer on left is flatter hand load, round on right is factory.

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Feel free to keep commenting,he is gone for a few weeks, so I don't have a chance to re check his dies at the moment. Plan on it when he gets back.

Thank you

 

[rileybassman]

I'll try and get a better primer pic later. I agree about safety, and that is a primary concern, but want to emphasis that we are trying to be as safe as we can, and he is just loading to the specs I dictate since I don't have the gear. We all are trusting a machine when we shoot factory ammo...

 

[GKPrice]

I'll try and get a better primer pic later. I agree about safety, and that is a primary concern, but want to emphasis that we are trying to be as safe as we can, and he is just loading to the specs I dictate since I don't have the gear. We all are trusting a machine when we shoot factory ammo...

It appears to me that all of the cases pictured need to be trimmed for proper length

 

[rayporter]

you could also try the tape trick on the brass.

 

[rileybassman]

It appears to me that all of the cases pictured need to be trimmed for proper length

Yea I noticed that especially this last firing the did lengthen more then before. The non-fired re-loads are much closer, but yes, either way trimming will be done now.

 

[rileybassman]

you could also try the tape trick on the brass.

I'm not sure what the tape trick is... could you embellish a little

Thanks!

 

[rayporter]

you put layers of tape on the base of the cartridge and close the bolt on it. when you reach the point that the bolt touches the tape you can then measure the thickness of the tape. this will tell you how far the shoulder has been pushed back. too much set back and the firing pin does not hit the primer with full force.

if you remove the firing pin the bolt feel is very good.

 

[tstowater]

I looked at the photos this morning and just looked at them again. Unless there is an optical illusion, the bullet isn't seated near as far on the hand loaded round and the shoulder definitely looks sets back further. Brass on fired round appears to be quite a bit longer. I will defer to rayporter, KMD and GKPrice, but I would suspect several issues are present that need to be addressed. As KMD stated earlier, I would highly recommend resolving the issues before shooting any more.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I thought the shoulder looked pushed back on the handloads also, but that could be my imagination.

 

[rileybassman]

I looked at the photos this morning and just looked at them again. Unless there is an optical illusion, the bullet isn't seated near as far on the hand loaded round and the shoulder definitely looks sets back further. Brass on fired round appears to be quite a bit longer. I will defer to rayporter, KMD and GKPrice, but I would suspect several issues are present that need to be addressed. As KMD stated earlier, I would highly recommend resolving the issues before shooting any more.

Yea I see what you are all saying and will refrain from shooting any others... the bullet is seated longer on purpose, and that was a measured test for seating depth to the lands... I don't ahve go/no go gages (will likely order some soon) but i'll try the tape trick tonight to see what the difference is...

SO my plan is to
1) use tape on the factory rounds to see headspace
2) use tape on handloads

In theory I can compare the measured difference between the amount of tape if I am understanding correctly?

 

[rileybassman]

Here are my tape findings:

For FIRED cases (Handloads this was Third firing)

Factory - Barnes Brass Length = 2.485"
1 Tape layer was stiff
2 layers was too stiff to close easy

Handload - Barnes Brass Length = 2.509"
Same

For LOADED round:

Factory = Barnes 168 grain TTSX OAL = 3.275" (Just brass is 2.484")
1 layer = stiff
2 layer = too stiff to close

Handloads = Barnes brass, barnes 168 grain TTSX OAL = 3.342" (Just brass is 2.489")
1 layer = fine
2 layer = stiff
3 layer = too stiff to easily close

The tape was masking tape at .003" thick.

So I estimate the "Shoulder" difference between the two was approx one layer of tape or .003" thick.

Will this make enough of a difference? I see what you all are saying about the shoulder... but on the other hand... the reloads have been "fire formed" so to speak, so I don't know if that would contribute to a slight angle change due to my specific chamber or not?

If you look, the base of the shoulder (idk the correct term sorry!) or where the bottleneck begins is in the same place... the top looks slightly different, but then the angle looks a little different to me so perhaps the actual chamber contact point is the same??

 

[rileybassman]

I talked to my cousin (has reloaded thousands of rounds) and he said its possible I just got a bad primer batch... said he had a batch 3 years ago that took 3-4 hits to fire... bought new primers, didn't change anything else, and never had the issue again...

He also said he thought that it would be pretty rare to have a headspace issue with only a few firings and that he and his friends almost never have this problem.

Just trying to get as many opinions as I can. Thanks all!

 

[Jason Snyder]

If the shoulder on your handloads is set back farther than a factory load, the shoulder is set back too far. And yes, that can cause some of the issues you are experiencing. If you switched primer brands to a harder cup, that would explain it. Have your buddy reset the sizing die to move the shoulder out slightly.

 

[rileybassman]

Sounds like a plan... Thank you all so much. So my plan is to pull the rest of this batch, resize and check the shoulder and try and get it so it is snug with one layer of tape. I'll also prolly replace the primers as well just to be safe.
Any issue with reusing pulled bullets?

 

[rayporter]

it sounds like you have at least .004 of setback.

you can save the brass by expanding up a caliber after pulling the bullets and then carefully sizing the neck about a third of the way to hold a bullet. this should give a crush fit in the chamber and allow the case to fire and size to the chamber with no danger of stretching. it will also prove the primer issue [or not] any bets?

any other method will require the cases to be tossed. the stuff that has been fired is very questionable.

and use the pulled bullets in the expanded cases - accuracy should be ok- not great just plinking stuff. just dont damage the heel of the bullet. the nose can be damaged and not hurt them.

 

[16Bore]

How guys load without measuring headspace is beyond me....