Reflection and Strategy adjustment for Archery Elk

[HolisticCowboy22]

Hey everyone, just finished up my shorter elk hunt (I was the guy that posted a week back about stategies for archery elk hunting when you have limited time to scout/hunt due to a growing family and helping wife with the kids).

Anyways, I got into a big 6x6 for my last hunt this morning.

He was fired up and chuckling so we figured he had cows with him and wanted to assert dominance. I would bugle and he would chuckle before I could even finish the bugle off.

Wind was perfect as he was slightly elevated and I was below with wind in my face.

I had my dad start raking behind me and this seemed to fire him up even more.

We did this for about 45 minutes but he didn’t want to leave his cows so I made a move on him.

I snuck up the draw and spotted him with 3 cows. Once I ranged him he was 50 yards and prepared to pull back. As I pulled I didn’t see 2 other cows hidden above to my right and they busted me which alerted the bull who suddenly startled and dove off the back.

Bull never answered after that and hunt was done.

My question to you veterans on here is: what could I have done different to ensure success?

I got into bow hunting 3 years ago because of:
1. The difficulty
2. The physicality of it
3. The reps you have to put in to b successful
4. The proximity you can get to those wondrous animals

I’ve been a solid blacktail hunter (rifle/muzzleloader) for years but am now 0-3 archery hunting elk.

Of note: this is in Idaho where I now live

Appreciate you all and God bless!

 

[Moneyball]

Hard to say without being there. I would think him chuckling meant one of two things:
1. If he thought you were a cow, he was inviting you over to build his harem.
2. Once bull sounds were introduced, he was bugling his current harem to keep them close. His continued bugling was his way of keeping tabs on you as an intruder bull.

What time of the morning was it? You may have caught them in transition.

Not an expert by any means, but those are the two big ones that I have experienced.

 

[HolisticCowboy22]

This was at 7:45am but he was going off about 15 minutes before first light.

I think you are right on both accounts - he was definitely weary of an intruder bull but he did also have a good sized harem of 5 cows.

I’m thinking if I was more patient he would eventually come down to “fight” but who knows.

 

[5MilesBack]

I’m thinking if I was more patient he would eventually come down to “fight” but who knows.

He's not going to come down to fight unless he sees you as a real threat. I'll leave it at that. And he may have very well had more cows than just 5. That's not many for a mature bull. They have a way of hiding pretty well, and can be feeding off a ways.

 

[Moneyball]

At 7:45, I would definitely expect them to be in transition.

My bet would be that you were dogging them, and he was likely roundup bugling and chuckling to keep his cows close. Sounds like he was trying to keep tabs on you as he created distance also.

Does not sound like a hot cow is in the equation as he wasn't bugling like crazy and no satellites around.

 

[HolisticCowboy22]

He's not gong to come down to fight unless he sees you as a real threat. I'll leave it at that. And he may have very well had more cows than just 5. That's not many for a mature bull. They have a way of hiding pretty well, and can be feeding off a ways.

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I guess that’s why he’s a mature bull - smart and not easy to bring in. It’s incredible how well the cows hide. They are like ghosts most times

 

[wyohayes]

As others mentioned, he was keeping tabs on the other bull. A bull with cows, especially a mature "herd" bull, just don't seem real "callable" to me. You can call in satellites but I have just not seen them coming in. Rare exceptions for early season bulls and also bulls that aren't getting called at several times a day (limited entry units or very low hunting pressure).

In that situation, i would have made a move on him first thing. If i had a caller they stay back a few hundred yards and just keep him talking. If i'm solo and bull is talking enough for me to continue moving in, i'm silent.

Cows picking you off, happens. I'd say if you make that move sooner you can move slower giving you more time to try and see all the elk. However, blowing cows out happens. While i hate getting spotted by cows I think it means you aren't being aggressive enough if it doesn't happen at times.

What could you have done different? Have more "at bats" like that encounter. 45 mins of back and forth likely has cows and bull on alert imo too.

My success rate went up when i didn't assume that bulls (that i wanted to shoot) were coming in to calls. It does happen but in my experience highly pressured general/OTC unit bulls are only dumb enough about 1 day per season to do it. Satellite bulls/spikes don't fall into that pattern, they'll come in a lot more. I know every youtube and person will tell you how bulls fall all over themselves to come running to any sound you make in the elk woods, but I haven't seen it work like that (on bigger bulls) in general/OTC units. Several generations of elk have now experienced being called at by good sounding, modern elk calls. I have to believe they can adapt to that.

I like the raking angle though, that is a good fall back for me to help get bulls more frequently vocal.

 

[HolisticCowboy22]

As others mentioned, he was keeping tabs on the other bull. A bull with cows, especially a mature "herd" bull, just don't seem real "callable" to me. You can call in satellites but I have just not seen them coming in. Rare exceptions for early season bulls and also bulls that aren't getting called at several times a day (limited entry units or very low hunting pressure).

In that situation, i would have made a move on him first thing. If i had a caller they stay back a few hundred yards and just keep him talking. If i'm solo and bull is talking enough for me to continue moving in, i'm silent.

Cows picking you off, happens. I'd say if you make that move sooner you can move slower giving you more time to try and see all the elk. However, blowing cows out happens. While i hate getting spotted by cows I think it means you aren't being aggressive enough if it doesn't happen at times.

What could you have done different? Have more "at bats" like that encounter. 45 mins of back and forth likely has cows and bull on alert imo too.

My success rate went up when i didn't assume that bulls (that i wanted to shoot) were coming in to calls. It does happen but in my experience highly pressured general/OTC unit bulls are only dumb enough about 1 day per season to do it. Satellite bulls/spikes don't fall into that pattern, they'll come in a lot more. I know every youtube and person will tell you how bulls fall all over themselves to come running to any sound you make in the elk woods, but I haven't seen it work like that (on bigger bulls) in general/OTC units. Several generations of elk have now experienced being called at by good sounding, modern elk calls. I have to believe they can adapt to that.

I like the raking angle though, that is a good fall back for me to help get bulls more frequently vocal.

Loved the write up. Sounds like you would have been even more aggressive than I was. You are spot on about the heavily pressured OTC public bulls.

It’s funny you watch all these Instagram and YouTube hunters and you go into it thinking these big bulls will just come in screaming but that just isn’t the case.

I think bow hunting is a lot about learning from mistakes and coming back even better the next year

 

[5MilesBack]

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I guess that’s why he’s a mature bull - smart and not easy to bring in. It’s incredible how well the cows hide. They are like ghosts most times

I've seen herds with the cows scattered across a 5 acre treed spot on a ridge side. It's tough to sneak in on a bull that is always on the "other" side of the cows. You need to get the bull to come towards you. How do you do that? Think of a dominant male in a bar with a harem of women. How do you get him to consider you to be a threat?

 

[wyohayes]

I love Joel Turner's thoughts on calling and I think many of his analogies to be really good. Though, I do think that some is far too anthropomorphized. At the end of the day, elk aren't people. People in the bar situation don't really fear being killed. Elk in highly pressured units do. They think about more than another bull challenging them.

Again, private land or low pressure I think makes a big difference. The answer is not to always blow a call.

 

[HolisticCowboy22]

I love Joel Turner's thoughts on calling and I think many of his analogies to be really good. Though, I do think that some is far too anthropomorphized. At the end of the day, elk aren't people. People in the bar situation don't really fear being killed. Elk in highly pressured units do. They think about more than another bull challenging them.

Again, private land or low pressure I think makes a big difference. The answer is not to always blow a call.

What’s a good scenario where you wouldn’t blow a call with a close by bull ripping off?

 

[wyohayes]

Preface this by saying that this is just my experience. I hunt general units every year and about every 3rd year i draw a good limited tag. What i'm saying right now is 100% when i'm in general units or later archery in limited.

If i'm around peak rut and two bulls are near enough that they keep each other bugling, i'm not calling. I'm being quiet and sneaking in. My thought process is I don't want elk looking for me. This works whether you want to shoot a cow or that large bull. In this scenario, elk sounds will often buy you an opportunity at a satellite/spike though if you are looking to shoot any elk. I will also try and determine where they are going and partially let them work to me if feasible. All my big bulls were harvested this way. By this time of year, bulls have sparred and have their harem. If you can get really close (inside 100 yards) I think you have a chance at pulling him in (solo is hard) with a bugle. However, he can also just push cows 400 yards in 90 seconds as his response to this challenge. I'd rather not give him that chance.

If it is first ~10 days i think bigger bulls are much more callable during that time and i will call to bring them in much more at this time. Also, if a bull is just screaming non-stop and there are several others, he is being harassed and will probably come running in to a challenge at close range.

I also get pretty leery about cow sounds mid-end of september. I'm fortunate to spend most of the summer in the mountain as well as all of september. I have a number of cool videos of cows/calves talking all summer. They are LOUD and constant. Cows (again in the highly pressured units but I've also noticed it the 4 times i've hunted good limited units) talk far, far less in September. They still talk, but it is i don't know, less than 5% as much as the summer (in my estimation). I've watched cow elk turn around and take a bull with them when cow calls go out later in september (and not just mine, i've watched groups that other hunters were also calling to). So I get pretty leery of cow sounds as I think they can often do more harm than good (though admittedly i still make that dang sound). I like Turner's discussion of cow/calf sounds and will admit i've had better luck with calf sounds.

Early season i think is much easier to get elk to come to calls. Love slow play, raking, glunking, panting, grunting during this time.

Limited units with far less pressure I think the dynamics are all very similar but i'm more willing to call more often. For me, the elk just aren't getting messed with.

 

[farmermail]

What @wyohayes said. I wouldn't have called at all. Rarely does a bull with cows leave them to come to a call. Use his sounds to locate, stalk, and kill. Just like a wolf. The other cows knew you were there before you moved, and were looking for an elk. If you were silent, they aren't looking for anything at all, and you may have gotten a shot off. Don't give up your position if you don't have to.

Satellite bulls? Totally different, they will often come running to a call. This was a bull with cows.

 

[Dennis]

As an old timer I rarely find calling a key ingredient in success. In the right circumstances it can be helpful, but it’s not my first choice to advertise my location especially at distance.

 

[5MilesBack]

I love Joel Turner's thoughts on calling and I think many of his analogies to be really good. Though, I do think that some is far too anthropomorphized. At the end of the day, elk aren't people. People in the bar situation don't really fear being killed. Elk in highly pressured units do. They think about more than another bull challenging them.

Hmmmm.......does Joel use bar analogies too? He probably stole mine. I "normally" don't post any of mine anymore, but I'm getting too old to care these days.

 

[IdahoElk]

I love Joel Turner's thoughts on calling and I think many of his analogies to be really good. Though, I do think that some is far too anthropomorphized. At the end of the day, elk aren't people. People in the bar situation don't really fear being killed. Elk in highly pressured units do. They think about more than another bull challenging them.

Again, private land or low pressure I think makes a big difference. The answer is not to always blow a call.

The guy calls in a ton of Elk every year, His tactics do work.

 

[BoilerBowHunter]

This has been helpful to read through, thanks all. I had a similar scenario last week in Colorado. Bull bugled on his own, and we were quickly below him with thermals pulling down. He had cows with him. We started off with cow calls, and they kept doing the back and forth thing with us. I eventually challenge bugled thinking it may piss him off, but I think it had the opposite effect. They eventually worked off.

I think I should have just tried to loop around (to try and stay away from the cows) to get on his level and then tried to slowly work my way in silently. It can be really hard as a new elk hunter (2nd year for me) to figure out what the most prudent play is when you aren't hunting with someone else who has experience. I spend a lot of time second guessing myself or frozen in the moment wondering what the right play is.... Posts like this help me process what I saw/went through and will hopefully help the next time.