Red Snake Tikka T3x AICS bottom metal Accurate Magazine trouble shot.

[steffen707]

EDIT: To anybody reading this, @RedSnake has been great at communicating with me during my purchase troubles. In all fairness his bottom metal description on his site did specifically mention the issue that i've had, and it was in no way because of his product, its because of me trying to adapt a 300winmag AICS mag to work with 7RM. His site also specified this would only work up to 3.5" COAL, which I overlooked probably because of excitement. I hope my posting below didn't give anyone the impression the bottom metal was faulty, i was just looking for more guidance from others that have trouble shot this issue. Thanks,


I have a Tikka T3x 7mm RM, I bought a Red Snake LA Bottom metal (compatible with AICS .300 Win Mag magazines (3.715" length)) and got it installed with minor modification to the stock as expected; however, when I load a round it has to be shorter than the follower, otherwise it contacts the action.

So i can't use full length of the magazine and if the cartridge is pushed forward in the magazine, it'll contact the action.

ALSO, when the bolt pushes the cartridge forward the brass gets scratched up a ton and the bullets are contacting the ramp? and are getting scratched up too.

Stock Magazine, edge sits flat on that edge.



Is my AICS magazine suppose to contact the action where I indicated in red, or is it suppose to sit lower like the stock magazine above?


You se how the follower is banged up some, it has to be pushed all the way back to clear the action, and if a bullet is longer than the follower, it'll hit the action.....


Is my Tikka T3x different than most?

How are others having success with a Red Snake or mountain tactical bottom metal?

 

[amassi]

@RedSnake

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[LightFoot]

Following.

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[Lawnboi]

That’s cause the tikka action is not designed to take a 3.6” cartridge. You will also likely have got pull the bolt to eject a live round.

 

[steffen707]

That’s cause the tikka action is not designed to take a 3.6” cartridge. You will also likely have got pull the bolt to eject a live round.

True. Depends how long you make your round.

These after market bottom metals say that they allow you to use a 3.715" AICS magazine.

My experience seems to be contrary to others success and I want to know what I need to do to make this work.

 

[steffen707]

@RedSnake

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its probably not the best time of year with 2 holidays in a week.

I'm thinking there is no way to get a 3.6" cartridge from the mag to the chamber without opening up the feed ramp on a Tikka long action.

Looks like the highest case capacity in 7mm with a long round that is less than 3.3" Overall length is the 7RSAUM or 7WSM. I've also thought about changing to a .284 or 2.84 Shehane. The straight .284 has lapua brass. the 7RSAUM I can get in ADG brass. the 7wsm I can't find anything, or else i'd have to neck down a 300wsm case, and i'm not sure if there are other diferences that would stop me from being able to chamber my .284 Proof barrel.

I'm leaning towards just finishing this Tikka T3x build with 7RSAUM and hope there's enough capacity to get my LRX bullet going for the distances I want.

 

[amassi]

Correct you won't be shooting 3.6" cartridges out of a tikka.
If you're shooting the lrx and considering 7mm may as well do good old-fashioned 7mm rm. It will work just dandy in a tikka action with billions of pieces of brass rolling around, including premium options from adg and peterson. The saum is too popular right now unless you have 200 pieces of brass going in and offers no advantage of the 7rm to launch a Lrx.

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[steffen707]

Correct you won't be shooting 3.6" cartridges out of a tikka.
If you're shooting the lrx and considering 7mm may as well do good old-fashioned 7mm rm. It will work just dandy in a tikka action with billions of pieces of brass rolling around, including premium options from adg and peterson. The saum is too popular right now unless you have 200 pieces of brass going in and offers no advantage of the 7rm to launch a Lrx.

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While I agree if the LRX was the only bullet I was going to try, the 7RM would be a great choice, but I also want to try some heavier ABLR bullets, and even some longer/heavier berger target bullets.

So if I stick with the Tikka action and Stock I have, I have to go with a shorter 7mm cartridge than 7RM.

This does bring me back to my main issue though. Why are there bottom metals being sold for Tikka actions (which are all long and all the same), to use a 3.715" AICS magazine, if its still limited to 3.3" COAL?

 

[2rsquared]

So the .280ai loaded long with heavy, high BC bullets won't work in a Tikka???

I was thinking of rebarreling from a .308 to the .280ai so that I could keep the same bolt face. Just add a long action mag and bolt stop and be done.

I like the idea of going 7SAUM but didnt' like the idea of getting a magnum bolt in order to do it.

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[amassi]

So the .280ai loaded long with heavy, high BC bullets won't work in a Tikka???

I was thinking of rebarreling from a .308 to the .280ai so that I could keep the same bolt face. Just add a long action mag and bolt stop and be done.

I like the idea of going 7SAUM but didnt' like the idea of getting a magnum bolt in order to do it.

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Sure the 280ai would work on a tikka
You could certainly run a 150 or 168 berger
Run the numbers against a 7 saum with the 180, and it would probably increase your effective range by something trivial like 60 yards.

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[Lawnboi]

True. Depends how long you make your round.

These after market bottom metals say that they allow you to use a 3.715" AICS magazine.

My experience seems to be contrary to others success and I want to know what I need to do to make this work.

I think it lies in the difference of something working, and something working correctly. The action just isn’t able to handle that long without modification unfortunately.

If I think I’ll be loading over 3.3” I think your better off building on something else or at least understanding the limitations. Part of the reason I didn’t utilize a tikka action for my last long action build.

 

[Justin Crossley]

I have a Tikka T3x 7mm RM, I bought a Red Snake LA Bottom metal (compatible with AICS .300 Win Mag magazines (3.715" length)) and got it installed with minor modification to the stock as expected; however, when I load a round it has to be shorter than the follower, otherwise it contacts the action.

So i can't use full length of the magazine and if the cartridge is pushed forward in the magazine, it'll contact the action.

ALSO, when the bolt pushes the cartridge forward the brass gets scratched up a ton and the bullets are contacting the ramp? and are getting scratched up too.

Stock Magazine, edge sits flat on that edge.
View attachment 359906


Is my AICS magazine suppose to contact the action where I indicated in red, or is it suppose to sit lower like the stock magazine above?
View attachment 359907

You se how the follower is banged up some, it has to be pushed all the way back to clear the action, and if a bullet is longer than the follower, it'll hit the action.....
View attachment 359908

Is my Tikka T3x different than most?

How are others having success with a Red Snake or mountain tactical bottom metal?

I used one for quite a while in a Tikka 300WM. I modified the front of the action to allow full length rounds. Took me a few minutes with a Dremel.

 

[steffen707]

So the .280ai loaded long with heavy, high BC bullets won't work in a Tikka???

I was thinking of rebarreling from a .308 to the .280ai so that I could keep the same bolt face. Just add a long action mag and bolt stop and be done.

I like the idea of going 7SAUM but didnt' like the idea of getting a magnum bolt in order to do it.

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single feeding you can run them just fine. If you limit yourself to the factory 3.3" magazine, you can do it, but it wont be optimal. Might have to push the bullet into the powder and lose capacity.

And i'm looking at using the 190gr bergers, they're even worse.

 

[steffen707]

I think it lies in the difference of something working, and something working correctly. The action just isn’t able to handle that long without modification unfortunately.

If I think I’ll be loading over 3.3” I think your better off building on something else or at least understanding the limitations. Part of the reason I didn’t utilize a tikka action for my last long action build.

I wish I knew that before I bought the bottom metal and magazines.......

Thanks for the info though, you're right.

 

[steffen707]

I used one for quite a while in a Tikka 300WM. I modified the front of the action to allow full length rounds. Took me a few minutes with a Dremel.

Did your brass or bullets get scratched up after you modified the action? @RedSnake I'd really like to hear your side of this.

 

[RedSnake]

@steffen707 Sorry for the delay in reply. Was incommunicado deer hunting in the Texas Hill Country and just got your email.

I’d like to answer your questions and clarify a bit about our tikka LA bottom metal.

First, let me say that we stand by our parts and our customer satisfaction is extremely important to us. We have a 100% no questions asked return/refund in full policy if our parts do not meet customer needs or expectations.

We designed our LA AICS bottom metal to be a drop-in* part for stocks with t3x inlet that would maximize the OAL (3.50”) that would feed from 3.715” (external length) 300WM AICS magazines with NO modification to the rifle — including the bolt stop, feed ramp, or trigger housing.
(*For my McMillan A3 and Game Scout and my Manners EH1-A zero modifications were required for action, stock, or our part. Factory t3x stocks do require removing about 1/8” of plastic from the stock near the front of the mag well so that our part will fit. Some customers that have used Mesa stocks have told me that shortening the mag release lever was necessary for the magazine to fully click in.)


In order to allow longer OAL to feed we shifted the magazine well on our part posteriorly by about 0.100”. Any further would require the bolt stop to be modified. Note that the front end of the magazine does NOT enter the receiver - it contacts the bottom. The MAX length that will feed with our part is 3.50” (Mountain Tactical is a quality company and makes a quality bottom metal part that allows 3.6 but it is my understanding that it requires some metal of the trigger housing to be milled/filed away.)


Sometimes the additive tolerance difference of 4 different manufactures (stock+bottom metal+magazine+rifle) can lead to suboptimal fitment in which case an gunsmith can fine tune the fit.

The brass/bullets should not be scratched when feeding. One thing that does make a big difference in how well it feeds is adjusting the width of the magazine’s feedlips. This is particularly true when a case narrower than a 300 WM is used in the 300 WM magazine. One of my rifles is a 280ai which did require bending the feedlips in to hold the narrower case. Ideally the front end of the cartridge should be slightly “nose-up” as depicted below. This is a 30 Nosler. HS Precision makes a nifty tool for bending the lips. And a good gunsmith should also be able to do in a matter of minutes.

 

[steffen707]

@steffen707 Sorry for the delay in reply. Was incommunicado deer hunting in the Texas Hill Country and just got your email.

In order to allow longer OAL to feed we shifted the magazine well on our part posteriorly by about 0.100”. Any further would require the bolt stop to be modified. Note that the front end of the magazine does NOT enter the receiver - it contacts the bottom. The MAX length that will feed with our part is 3.50” (Mountain Tactical is a quality company and makes a quality bottom metal part that allows 3.6 but it is my understanding that it requires some metal of the trigger housing to be milled/filed away.)
View attachment 361772

Well I suppose you're allowed to go hunting. =)

every few times I try to put the magazine in, it clicks in and then the follower gets hung up underneath the action. This is on a 300 win mag Accurate Mag looking through the action you can see the follower us under the action.


I'm guessing if I file down the follower tip it can't get hung up?

 

[steffen707]

@steffen707
The brass/bullets should not be scratched when feeding. One thing that does make a big difference in how well it feeds is adjusting the width of the magazine’s feedlips. This is particularly true when a case narrower than a 300 WM is used in the 300 WM magazine. One of my rifles is a 280ai which did require bending the feedlips in to hold the narrower case. Ideally the front end of the cartridge should be slightly “nose-up” as depicted below. This is a 30 Nosler. HS Precision makes a nifty tool for bending the lips. And a good gunsmith should also be able to do in a matter of minutes.
View attachment 361773

Well that definately looks like an issue, my tip isn't pointed up at all. Your magazine has much more brass above the lips.

Do you see how the feed lips go all the way to the shoulder of my 7rm brass, your feed lips are much shorter. What brand magazine is that in your photo?

I wonder if I bend the feed lips and get the tip pointed up, maybe the follower can't slide forward any, so then it'll clear the action. Stupid lips are probably the cause of this whole thing.

And i'm pretty sure you mentioned that on your website.

EDIT: Yep,
Notes:

• Magazine not included.
• Designed for Tikka OEM factory stock and aftermarket stocks with factory inlet
• AICS metal magazines recommended
• Some minor bending of the magazine feed lips may be required.

 

[RedSnake]

@steffen707

I have had equal success with Accurate Mag, MDT, and Accuracy International brands. Never had an issue with reliable feeding with any of them once the mag lips were tuned correctly in multiple rifles and calibers including 280ai, 7 REM Mag, 30 Nosler, 300 WM

I haven’t encountered problems with the front of the follower like you are depicting. But, I have found that with the AI brand the bolt will hit the back end of the follower on an EMPTY mag and the mag has to be dropped to close the bolt. The Accurate Mag and MDT brand have a beveled follower at the back end that allows the bolt to close.

 

[steffen707]

FYI i just added this to my first post as well.

EDIT: To anybody reading this, @RedSnake has been great at communicating with me during my purchase troubles. In all fairness his bottom metal description on his site did specifically mention the issue that i've had, and it was in no way because of his product, its because of me trying to adapt a 300winmag AICS mag to work with 7RM. His site also specified this would only work up to 3.5" COAL, which I overlooked probably because of excitement. I hope my posting below didn't give anyone the impression the bottom metal was faulty, i was just looking for more guidance from others that have trouble shot this issue. Thanks,