Record Book Deer

[todd kelly]

It's an interesting topic, because I thought the original intent of the scoring and record keeping systems was to acknowledge the top specimens of the species, not the hunter who took them. The commercialization of big game hunting has seemed to reverse this over time. The founding fathers of conservation thought that some of these species where going to go extinct, so they devised the B&C system to document the species so future generations could know what was here, not to recognize trophy hunters. Conservation took hold in a big way and the species survived, some even have come back from near extinction.
Personally, I plan on entering anything that qualifies, I like the original idea of it all and it's a great database for age class and genetics.

I totally agree, I think more emphasis should be put on the animal harvested and the habitat it came from than who killed it. I think B&C and P&Y do a pretty good job at this.

I think it's organizations like GOABC and their new records book and SCI record books that take away from the "fair chase" and put more emphasis on the hunter and his bragging rights.

 

[robby denning]

Nick
Kirt's my friend, but I wasn't thinking of him when I wrote that. Some of his problems he brought on himself.
I was thinking of some local hunters who've killed some record book animals and then suddenly everyone is suspicious.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I don't, and have no plans to in the future. I fail to see how me entering an animal in their record book supports the organization more than me giving them a donation or simply donating my time.

 

[6mm Remington]

I feel that both P&Y and the Boone & Crockett club do a lot to help promote hunting and the record keeping portion is just one aspect of it and certainly not the only aspect. The quality of animals taken can tell a lot of things over time such as how are we doing to manage our populations, are we putting too much pressure on the bucks and the bulls, etc. Some people want in one of the books for the wrong reasons, mainly just to have their name there and to say look at me. That's unfortunate but true. On the other hand I think it's a neat tribute to the animal to have it entered if it is large enough to qualify. For me it would be more of a respect thing if I'm ever lucky enough to take something large enough to qualify.

David

 

[RockChucker30]

Is that a triple main beam?

 

[Stid2677]

Is that a triple main beam?

Double main beam, split brow.

 

[bowuntr]

It's an interesting topic, because I thought the original intent of the scoring and record keeping systems was to acknowledge the top specimens of the species, not the hunter who took them. The commercialization of big game hunting has seemed to reverse this over time. The founding fathers of conservation thought that some of these species where going to go extinct, so they devised the B&C system to document the species so future generations could know what was here, not to recognize trophy hunters. Conservation took hold in a big way and the species survived, some even have come back from near extinction.
Personally, I plan on entering anything that qualifies, I like the original idea of it all and it's a great database for age class and genetics.

Rizzy nailed it... When B&C opened the National Heads and Horns Museum the words "In Memory of the Vanishing Big Game of the World" was carved in stone above the entrance. The hunter/conservationists thought that the animals were going to disappear so they started to record their size for history. Ironic that hunters turned things around... Anyways, like I said there's much more to these record book organizations...

I think that a far fetch to blame the organizations for someone being targeted by jealous rumors and F&G investigations... if that's true than we might as well blame Rokslide too... Ed F

 

[robby denning]

Ed,
please read my post again. I wasn't blaming the organizations.

 

[Buster]

I like to be optimistic and think that guys that kill big animals work hard and deserve a bit of recognition for their effort. I know it is a bit nieve, but there are some pretty legit, devoted, and very phenomenal hunters out there. If entered, it is up to that individual to decide whether they want to focus the attention on the animal, or themselves. The poachers and thieves of our sport tend to be exposed at some point. As for the animal, it should stay in the records, regardless of whether it has to have the word "poached" beside it.

Stid, if you enter your buck, I hope you take a bit of pride in knowing that you accomplished something that is rare to do. By your posts I can tell that you have a lot of respect for game, and entering it will only add to that. If you do not, that is fine too. Many people can show their respect in their own way.

 

[jmez]

I've killed some whitetails that would qualify but have no desire to enter them. Haven't even had any of them scored. Not really a horn/trophy hunter, just lucky to have some good spots to hunt. Putting them in the book just isn't my thing.

 

[justin davis]

Nick
Kirt's my friend, but I wasn't thinking of him when I wrote that. Some of his problems he brought on himself.
I was thinking of some local hunters who've killed some record book animals and then suddenly everyone is suspicious.

Your gonna get that just with any big size animal. I have had that happen to guys I know. They shoot a nice animal and automatically rumors start flying and stories get crazy. You know if a guy kills a nice animal it had to be done illegially! Ha

 

[jmez]

Happens around here as well. Big fish, big deer, big elk, etc. Stories are usually circulating before the pictures. A lot of people are just jealous of others success.

 

[wyelkhunter]

I have only entered one of my P&Y animals. The only reason I registered him is because he is the WY state record typical. WY does not keep their own records for hunting they just use the P&Y and B&C books.

 

[leftyokie]

I have 1 P&Y for sure and another that might make it. I haven't entered or officially scored any. My uncle is a taxi so I know the scores are right on the bigger one. I want to shoot big deer don't get me wrong and I pass any deer 3.5 and younger but for ME scoring degrades the animal...now I think of him as the 140 etc instead of the hunt. I believe in letting young deer grow but I'm not sure I didn't enjoy it more when I knew nothing and shot everything....

 

[2rocky]

If you look in the record books for each biennial scoring period you will see statistics on all the data on the Score forms and fairchase affidavit. Hunter age, Equipment, shot angle, number of shots, shot distance, etc.
Much of that information is used by the game departments to guide policy for bowhunting seasons. I think most agencies will admit that the Fair chase ethic promoted by B&C and P&Y is more rigidly adhered to and promoted by club members than the general hunting public.

More times than not, when I meet someone who has killed a number of record book animals or species, I've never heard of them before. Out of all the thousands of people who enter animals each year, there are only a handful of people who become household names. So it is not a ticket to stardom to enter an animal in the records program.

I will say if I meet someone who is an active member of P&Y, a measurer, and may have an animal in the records system, I will NEARLY ALWAYS respect them as a fellow hunter because our values just seem to align. Sure there are braggarts out there who might openly boast, but there is that in every hobby and activity. Come to think of it the guy I have measured the most trophies for you have never heard of, and you wouldn't know he is a bowhunter if you met him on the street.

 

[bowuntr]

John, Your last paragraph says a lot... I feel exactly the same way. There is much more behind the pages of the record book... the people.... Ed F

 

[TEmbry]

The reason I don't partake in the record books is because I'm still not sure how I feel about them. To claim it is to respect the animal itself is complete BS.... but to say it is all one big ego trip for the hunter is also BS. I agree with the mission of P&Y and all the good they do, but I disagree with many of their oversights and "dumb" rules (IMO of course). Not being a rifle hunter, I have no dog in the B&C fight so I don't know much about the org in general.

I tend to side more with the opinion that record books are more for the mindset of the hunter who was successful than the animal itself or the good of the sport. If that was the case, we would write checks in support without a kill, and leave names out of the book when it comes to the records. On the flip side, I see absolutely NOTHING wrong with a guy taking pride in his kill and wanting it recognized. I go after the biggest animals I can hold out for as well. My only problem comes with people claiming they only enter animals out of respect to the animal. Give me a break, if you want to respect him don't draw back and fling an arrow at him in the first place... lol.

I currently have 3-5 animals that would qualify for P&Y, but haven't entered them yet to date. I likely will at some point once I get over my stubborn opposition to P&Y (when they finally drop their dumb lighted nock rule). And no, the lighted nock rule hasn't had an effect on any of my potential entries yet, I just don't agree with their philosophy on it.

 

[bowuntr]

TEmbry, Without being long winded... I've always simply said "to each his own"... I understand your frustrations and have many of the same feelings myself. If you find an organization that you want to support that you agree with 100%... you're gonna be the only member. Humans are individuals and have many differences. You have to look at the big picture... It's your call. There are a lot of guys that don't enter their animals but are huge supporters of the organization.

In contrast to what 2Rocky wrote, I talked to a guy on the phone today, a P&Y member, who has well over 100 animals entered in the book and everyone on this site knows his name... he is one of the most down to earth guys I've ever talked to... he cared more about talking about my hunting season than our business. It's the people.... Ed F

 

[TEmbry]

TEmbry, Without being long winded... I've always simply said "to each his own"... I understand your frustrations and have many of the same feelings myself. If you find an organization that you want to support that you agree with 100%... you're gonna be the only member. Humans are individuals and have many differences. You have to look at the big picture... It's your call. There are a lot of guys that don't enter their animals but are huge supporters of the organization.

In contrast to what 2Rocky wrote, I talked to a guy on the phone today, a P&Y member, who has well over 100 animals entered in the book and everyone on this site knows his name... he is one of the most down to earth guys I've ever talked to... he cared more about talking about my hunting season than our business. It's the people.... Ed F

I agree on nearly every word you just typed. The guys I know with dozens of animals entered are some of the most down to earth guys around. BUT, they are also not ones to walk around saying it's all for the animal, boasting of how noble their entries are... They admit they are proud of what they accomplished and this is another way of showing that.

For your exact reasons, I will likely enter all of my eligible animals in the next year or two. P&Y does far more good than bad, and I need to get over my few stubborn oppositions to them. I could wait them out, but what is the point? Eventually P&Y WILL accept lighted nock entries (as they should) and I wouldn't have much to complain about with them at that point.

I'm just not in the financial situation to support them via writing checks. Entering animals is about as much as I could do currently... And I'll be the first to tell you that my ego would rather enter the animal than write a $40 check and keep the animal to myself. Sue me, I'm human. haha

 

[bowuntr]

If you are in that position financially... I'd do just the opposite. Not enter your animals and join as an associate ($40), to support the club and get the quarterly magazine. Once you read your first magazine, cover to cover, you'll understand what's it's all about... I promise... You'll get a better understanding of the records program as well. Ed F