Recoil?

[MTSasquatch]

I’ve noticed less recoil and slightly better ability to reaquire my target when shooting the lighter calibers in the prone, when compared to my 7mm mag. Shooting from tall bipods, over a backpack, etc I’ve noticed that difference to not necessarily be functionally meaningful. When shooting in the prone with the 7mm mag I load my bipods as to absorb more recoil and reduce muzzle lift, and it works well enough for me to crack off accurate and timely follow up shots.

The key part of your question to me is in regards to the distances. At those distances, follow up shots should be fairly easy with any caliber, in any position. If difficult I’d say the shooter needs more range time before trying to take an animal’s life in the field. I’ve always considered shooting your rifle to be the most basic task that can be accomplished in the field because you have sole control over all variables that come into play. Even wind, it only requires practice. Fieldcraft is more of an art and takes time, but rifle skills are fundamental to gun hunting. Yet, I remain surprised when hunting with other folks and see the marksmanship being brought to bear.

 

[Lawnboi]

And because we know you guys love memes

 

[KenLee]

I shot at a bull elk 3 times with a supressed 300wsm at a little under 200 yards. I had no clue if I hit it until I walked over and found it dead. I hit it the first shot and it only moved enough to cover its vitals with a tree, second 2 shots were at the neck, one hit and one miss. I was comfortable and had a decent rest. I reload and shoot quite a bit. I'm ready to abandon the 300wsm after "building" a 6mmgt. I would have used my 6mm but the old guys I had the privilege of hunting with would have thrown a fit.

Love the 300wsm, but I sling 150 grainers and have good recoil pads.

 

[Rick M.]

I have done a .243 (100 grain Grand Slams) to a 7-08AI (150 grain Nosler ABLR) to a 7RM (160 grain Partitions) test shooting prone off of a backpack. 5-shot groups. The .243 (Ruger American) and 7RM (Tikka D18) both are factory. The 7-08AI is a Tikka custom with a 20" Bartlein Rem Varmint contour. For the sake of the test, I did not shoot any of them suppressed, but I did have the Witt Machine SME brake on the 7RM.
There was a noticeable difference in recoil between the three. I was good with the first two, but with the 7RM shots 4 and 5, I had to really concentrate to not anticpate the recoil. The SME doesn't do a lot for recoil but is great at throwing the blast away from the shooter.

Significant powder jump with the 7mag. I've been really wanting to AI a 7mm-08. Are you enjoying that one?

 

[5MilesBack]

You might think you dont feel recoil when shooting at game but it definitely effects your ability stay on target, spot your hits, and make follow up shots

Shooting free hand, being LH shooting RH bolt guns (cycle the bolt with my left hand), I never stayed on target or spotted my hits, and I always had to reacquire the target for followup shots. But that never seemed to be an issue back then. I've been bowhunting for the past 17 years, but I'm sure those free hand shots would be more difficult for me these days even without any recoil.

 

[ID_Matt]

I shot a 10 lb 7 Saum in an NRL hunter match and then on the next used my 10 lb 6.5 creed. Significant difference in being able to stay on target and spot impacts for follow up shots. In prone positions, the 7 saum was no problem but once I got off my belly in to more awkward positions it really started to show itself. With tricky winds, this dropped my score significantly not being able to make proper corrections. Even though the ballistics of the 7 were far superior, the recoil of the 6.5 made scores much higher.

 

[Sako300]

Go from 400 to a 1000 yards and tell me if it was a flinch causing your 1st miss or perhaps a wind change or position of shot on an animal in a hunting scenario with a 6.5 creedmoor or a APA braked 300 win mag. I think flinch is more attributed to lack of practice in the actual field and not knowing how to correct. Not saying a lighter caliber recoil doesn’t help. But it isn’t necessarily the best answer for all hunting scenarios!

 

[Desk Jockey]

You might think you dont feel recoil when shooting at game but it definitely effects your ability stay on target, spot your hits, and make follow up shots

I will concede that point. Adding to my post above, I can ususally follow my shots with the 6.5 creed. My 300 moves to much to stay on target regardless of how I hold it or what position I am in. The limbsaver and the fact that it is a light gun just allow it to buck a bit. Never been able to track a shot on the range or in the field. Not once.

 

[Shraggs]

The other thread got me thinking. How many of you have compared a hunting weight rifle(sup 11 pounds) in .223, .243, or 6CM to a 6.5 Prc or bigger in shooing position you might take in the field while hunting from 100 to 400 yards? How many have done this and added in a follow-up shot or two? Be honest if you haven't but if you have, what was your conclusion?

At those distances I’ve never been able to get on target for a second assessment with my 7 mags or my kimber 84m 308. Thankfully didn’t need to.

I’ve since learned to shoot so much better thanks to rokslide. Any using the form special and a 350 legend. This includes tree stand which are not optimal for first shot.

I do shoot my 358 win blr well even loaded hot. Guessing over 26 ft lbs. definitely more than the two cited above - something about a slow roll or push I don’t subjectively think about. I have been able to get back on target but not instantly.

 

[Thinkingman]

Regardless of what any of the tough guys or anti-muzzle device guys claim, everyone shoots better with reduced recoil whether it be by using a muzzle device or a smaller cartridge. Not to ssay that you cant shoot good otherwise but it will be better with less recoil.

So you're saying the increase in muzzle blast is a benefit?
Some people realize the brake is increasing their hearing damage and you're saying that isn't a factor?

 

[Thinkingman]

And this is the problem- that recoil you notice at the bench with big magnums very much informs a subconscious anticipatory response almost everybody has to shooting them while hunting, whether you remember the actual recoil of the round you sent towards an animal or not.

If you took 100 FPS recordings of everyone shooting magnums at public ranges and looked at the last frame before the shot breaks, a large percentage would show peoples' eyes closed in them.

If you're shooting for groups and you know when the shot is going to break, you're doing it wrong.
I was trained by a CMP instructor to hold the sight picture and squeeze so you don't know when it's going to break.
Except for shotgun, it surprises me every time.

 

[bmart2622]

So you're saying the increase in muzzle blast is a benefit?



Some people realize the brake is increasing their hearing damage and you're saying that isn't a factor?

Im saying the reduction in recoil increases accuracy and being able to spot hits and make follow up shots!!! Thats a fact!!! Wear hearing protection

 

[Thinkingman]

Unless the brake changes barrel harmonics or corrects a defect in the muzzle crown, it DOES NOT improve accuracy.

 

[bmart2622]

Unless the brake changes barrel harmonics or corrects a defect in the muzzle crown, it DOES NOT improve accuracy.

It allows the shooter to shoot said rifle more accurately. Tell people like Ryan Avery, Tanya Avery, Sam Millard, Jeff Brozovich, Ryan Furman, the list can go on and on, that they are doing it wrong,because all of those people shoot 1000s of rounds every year with muzzle brakes on rifles and Im sure they do it much more accurately than you do

 

[bmart2622]

The rifle and the shooter are a package deal so if the brake helps the shooter shoot the rifle better then yes it helps with accuracy along with spotting hits and staying on target

 

[black dawg]

Gave up shooting at the range 5 years ago, way to many idiots. Now, all of my shooting is in the "field" with most shooting off of my hunting pack, and a few other positions, but No bench or bags. For me, anything over 130grn 270 just takes a lot more work to shoot. 223, 243 I am reaching for the bolt, looking at the target, with the bigger stuff takes time to get back on target and then reload.

 

[eamyrick]

Took a video last year shooting a 9.5lbs 416 Rem mag, no brake. Zero head or body movement as the gun goes off. I think the key to eliminating a flinch or anticipation is a lot of dry fire and shooting with guns (even pistols) with low recoil. For me I see zero difference in field conditions shooting a .22 or 30-06. If a guy shoots 40 rounds a year and it’s all 300 WM he will likely have an issue.

Applying the same logic, look at your average untrained street fight. A guy with zero experience will flinch if a guy stomps his foot. Then look at slow motion of a UFC fighter. Guys know they are gonna get rocked and are stone cold with their eyes open. It’s all in training.


And..to answer your question. I definitely have a quicker follow up with a similar rifle, in smaller caliber, all things the same. To expand this further, I’ve been involved with testing of pistol caliber rounds, in the 100s of thousands over several years and just the difference in follow up and performance for most shooters between 9mm and 40 cal is statistically much greater than I would have imagined. In terms of downrange ballistic performance on tissue, I’m still firmly in the camp that bigger and faster is always gonna be better if one shot is the consideration.

 

[sbaker0029]

I had to look up silent generation. Pretty much.

I had to look it up as well, definitely my granddad that taught me how to hunt.

My first experience with a rifle large caliber rifle is similar to yours. My granddad put a sporterized 303 British with a brass butt plate and iron sights in my hands at around 8yrs old. Developed a flinch under the pressure of trying to hit a deer and anticipating the painful recoil. Missed the first three deer I had the opportunity to shoot at.

I later got a 30-30 which was a dream to shoot compared to the 303 British. My accuracy improved greatly. First deer I shot with it dropped where it stood. Direct shot through the heart exactly where I was aiming dropped her where she stood.

 

[Rich M]

I know exactly when the 3006 will break and fire. Hard not to with the thousands or rounds thru it. Of the 80 or so deer and antelope ive shot wit it, have seen 40-50 or so take the bullet thru the scope. Both eyes open when hunting. Know the head roll/snap and when a deer isnt dead at the shot.

@sbaker0029 - can totally understand and feel it. They gave us thise guns cause its what they had and they worked. My stepson/son shoots 357 mag and 243. Im not doing that to him. 6-1 and 135 pounds, no way can he take the recoil. Old fat slow here walks him into the ground when we hunt.

 

[Wrench]

The bullet has left the barrel when a brake activates. Disrupting the flow of gas after the bullet has left the barrel does nothing for precision or accuracy. It absolutely covers up shooter flaws to assist in spotting shots. And in some cases they make shooters more flawed due to the increase in noise & concussion.

That's not 100% true. A brake that’s not concentric to the bore, ie "crooked" can cause the gas to escape later on one side of the bullet which can introduce a bullet wobble.

Seen it and fixed it on more than one rifle.