Recent experience on a limited draw unit in Utah

[cbeck36]

A friend of mine drew a limited entry unit here in Utah after 24 years. He asked me if I would go with him and help him. It has been several years since I had participated in a limited entry hunt on really good unit. What I found was quite overwhelming. The three guides that we knew of had soooo many people out scouting during the hunt. One in particular had 25 people out scouting, driving, or posting up on a ridge. We found elk in a bowl that was basically a travel corridor, we were sitting at a spot that gave us a vantage point. By the next morning there were "scouts" completely surrounding the bowl, thereby cutting off all access to the bowl. That evening there were 11 trucks taking the two-track to get there.

I realize that my friend asking me to go along to help is the same thing to a lesser degree. I'm not anti guiding either. It was frustrating to get something going and then be completely overwhelmed by scouts. I saw dozens of people on the hunt and never saw one tag holder. Is this how it is on all of the better units now? My grandpa used to say to me "there's a difference between scratching your ass and tearing a new hole in it".

 

[ThinkLeicaBuck]

A friend of mine drew a limited entry unit here in Utah after 24 years. He asked me if I would go with him and help him. It has been several years since I had participated in a limited entry hunt on really good unit. What I found was quite overwhelming. The three guides that we knew of had soooo many people out scouting during the hunt. One in particular had 25 people out scouting, driving, or posting up on a ridge. We found elk in a bowl that was basically a travel corridor, we were sitting at a spot that gave us a vantage point. By the next morning there were "scouts" completely surrounding the bowl, thereby cutting off all access to the bowl. That evening there were 11 trucks taking the two-track to get there.

I realize that my friend asking me to go along to help is the same thing to a lesser degree. I'm not anti guiding either. It was frustrating to get something going and then be completely overwhelmed by scouts. I saw dozens of people on the hunt and never saw one tag holder. Is this how it is on all of the better units now? My grandpa used to say to me "there's a difference between scratching your ass and tearing a new hole in it".

I have never hunted a limited entry unit before. Story's like this are the reason i dont chase the high point units in any state. I have heard this style of hunting referred to as "gorilla hunting". Makes me sick considering the living animal in the situation. Anything rare is valuable though. I will stick to OTC tags myself!

“The mere fair-weather hunter, who trusts entirely to the exertion of others, and does more than ride or walk about under favorable circumstances, and shoot at what somebody else shows him, is a hunter in name only. Whoever would really deserve the title must be able at a pinch to shift for himself, to grapple with the difficulties and hardships of wilderness life unaided, and not only to hunt, but at times to travel for days, whether on foot or on horseback, alone.” – Theodore Roosevelt, 1901

 

[johnsd16]

Sounds like total BS. States need to crack down on this from a hunting regulations and outfitting/licensing perspective. In MN “hunting” includes aiding or assisting in taking game and if you want to “hunt” you need to be eligible and licensed to be in the field. A deer drive for example, you can’t walk if you don’t have a deer license even if you don’t carry a gun. If you just have a small game license but are participating in a coordinated deer drive, that’s a violation. Things may have changed since I moved.

If those scouts aren’t licensed to hunt elk in that unit then they have no business being there aiding in subsequent taking of elk. Outfitters/guides clearly need these types of services but there must be caps or limits on how many licensed assistant guides or “scouts” can be in a unit. It defeats the whole purpose of having extremely limited tags in a LE unit. What’s the point of only having 10 bull tags in a small unit if all 10 tag holders have 25 scouts and there’s 250 people in the hills with binos waving their arms assuring the 10 tag holders. Total garbage. No reason 2-3 assistants per tag won’t get the job done.

 

[MattB]

A friend of a friend drew a Paunsagant mulie tag this year and the hunt sounded like a zoo. I didn't realize baiting was as big of a thing as it is there

 

[wapitibob]

Posse hunting in Utah is standard practice.

 

[Huntindog45]

I can only imagine how many flat brimmed hats were present...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BluMtn]

We have had similar experiences here in Southeastern Washington with the Governors tag. For several years we had some record bull elk in our mountains and we had one particular Governor tag holder that hired guides to scout all summer for bulls slowly whittling down to a record bull. As the hunting seasons drew near the scouts would interfere with other branched antler tag holders so the bull in question would be left alone until the Gov. tag holder could fly up to the local airport to be transported to the area of the bull where he would shoot the bull, high five everyone get back in the rig and fly off to his next big adventure. Friend of mine was on the trail of one of these bulls during archery and was confronted by scouts and told to find another bull. Reported them to the game dept. but I know for a fact the game agent was told to stand down and let it go.

We have had some Governor tag holders who have ethically hunted for their elk, but the majority of them send their goons into the mountains screwing up hunts for guys who have waited years for a branch antler tag and the game dept turns a blind eye because they don't want to mess up the gravy train.

 

[Shrek]

It’s sickening what some people will do for antlers. I have an acquaintance who goes to game farms to “hunt”. Legends is what I think the place is called. I told him I’d be prouder of shooting a cow from my best friends field. I would at least have some sweat equity in the cow. Hiring a bunch of people to scout is certainly not what I would want for any hunt for me but whatever floats your boat. The part I have a huge issue with is someone running interference on someone else’s hunt.

 

[bowieknife50]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shrek]

I’ll add that I have little sympathy for your friend. He wasted 24 years not hunting somewhere else in Utah. Why ? Obviously because he wanted to hunt huge antlers in some promised land. In the meantime he wasn’t going out and discovering what else Utah has to offer and creating great memories. His choice but he’s a fool in my book. A raghorn can be just as meaningful as a 400”+ , it’s all about the journey not the destination.

 

[realunlucky]

I’ll add that I have little sympathy for your friend. He wasted 24 years not hunting somewhere else in Utah. Why ? Obviously because he wanted to hunt huge antlers in some promised land. In the meantime he wasn’t going out and discovering what else Utah has to offer and creating great memories. His choice but he’s a fool in my book. A raghorn can be just as meaningful as a 400”+ , it’s all about the journey not the destination.

How do you know he wasn't chasing raghorns during the general season in Utah or where waiting to draw a limited entry tag? The whole point of limited entry is to have LESS people and an enhanced experience. Yes bulls are unit managed by age structure in Utah but antler size but maybe they go hand in hand.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[PathFinder]

I'll start by saying I hate that kind of operation. I'd be the first to stand up and clap if outfitting were banned on public land.
On the other hand, I'm sure there was more mountain to hunt. And they didn't restrain you from hunting there. Clients are generally overweight, lazy, and incompetent. Guides have to cater to that by hunting easy to access terrain. There were probably plenty of bulls elsewhere. What unit was it?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

 

[Shrek]

Realunlucky , I don’t know that he hasn’t but I’m not a fan of limited entry to enhance “age structure” which I find to be a euphemism for trophy managed. I fully support limited entry to keep a high demand place from being overrun and the herd decimated but I’ll always support opportunity over trophy.

 

[realunlucky]

Realunlucky , I don’t know that he hasn’t but I’m not a fan of limited entry to enhance “age structure” which I find to be a euphemism for trophy managed. I fully support limited entry to keep a high demand place from being overrun and the herd decimated but I’ll always support opportunity over trophy.

I'm all about opportunity also, but until Utah changes it's management practices hunters will be limited on opportunity to favor higher age structures and the trophies associated with them.

Sent from my moto z3 using Tapatalk

 

[YZF_88]

This crap happened to me on a LE archery hunt even in an “opportunity” unit. The last week of archery no other hunts are going on but then the rifle hunters show up early with their crews and ride ridges, pack trails and game trails bugling like crazy. I was very lucky to relocate and a buddy called a bull in for me.

 

[rob86jeep]

This crap happened to me on a LE archery hunt even in an “opportunity” unit. The last week of archery no other hunts are going on but then the rifle hunters show up early with their crews and ride ridges, pack trails and game trails bugling like crazy. I was very lucky to relocate and a buddy called a bull in for me.

I want to say in some places it's illegal to bugle for elk when you aren't hunting them; considered wildlife harassment I think (don't quote me on this though).

 

[rob86jeep]

I'll start by saying I hate that kind of operation. I'd be the first to stand up and clap if outfitting were banned on public land.
On the other hand, I'm sure there was more mountain to hunt. And they didn't restrain you from hunting there. Clients are generally overweight, lazy, and incompetent. Guides have to cater to that by hunting easy to access terrain. There were probably plenty of bulls elsewhere. What unit was it?

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

I'm really torn on this. On one side, I hate outfitters because I don't use them and I feel it takes away from the quality of hunting that DIY hunters get. One the other, it really hurts anybody that didn't grow up hunting, almost preventing (I said almost) them from ever learning the way. With how tight lipped hunters are in the interest days, how would an adult learn the skill of hunting without having access to pay an outfitter? They would either need to put in an extensive amount of time (which isn't possible for some families) or find a mentor (which can be incredibly hard if your a newcomer to our way of life.

Also the fact that guiding is capitalism and who am I to say what service you can and can't charge for when there is clearly a large market for it.

But, I do see you point and part of me would also be ecstatic if they outlawed it... I do think it might be some time for increased regulation though. Just as they regulated shed hunting in CO to try and prevent undue stress on the animals (not trying to argue if it does anything or not), this might be the time for some increased guide regulations.

 

[cbeck36]

Lots of interesting viewpoints as I knew there would be. I don’t know where the line is in this type of scenario but there has to be one. When the tag holder is sitting in a pickup with a radio waiting for word to come in....? That doesn’t seem like hunting to me, that’s killing. Yes, we moved, changed strategies etc. there were vehicles at every pullout. The place was simply overrun with folks. No easy answers, more than likely nothing will change but damn it was bullshit.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

I’ll add that I have little sympathy for your friend. He wasted 24 years not hunting somewhere else in Utah. Why ? Obviously because he wanted to hunt huge antlers in some promised land. In the meantime he wasn’t going out and discovering what else Utah has to offer and creating great memories. His choice but he’s a fool in my book. A raghorn can be just as meaningful as a 400”+ , it’s all about the journey not the destination.

Haters gonna hate. Drink a beer and chill out man.

 

[DAOutfitters208]

We have had similar experiences here in Southeastern Washington with the Governors tag. For several years we had some record bull elk in our mountains and we had one particular Governor tag holder that hired guides to scout all summer for bulls slowly whittling down to a record bull. As the hunting seasons drew near the scouts would interfere with other branched antler tag holders so the bull in question would be left alone until the Gov. tag holder could fly up to the local airport to be transported to the area of the bull where he would shoot the bull, high five everyone get back in the rig and fly off to his next big adventure. Friend of mine was on the trail of one of these bulls during archery and was confronted by scouts and told to find another bull. Reported them to the game dept. but I know for a fact the game agent was told to stand down and let it go.

We have had some Governor tag holders who have ethically hunted for their elk, but the majority of them send their goons into the mountains screwing up hunts for guys who have waited years for a branch antler tag and the game dept turns a blind eye because they don't want to mess up the gravy train.

Good old Dan Agnew I assume. It takes a long time for most guys to get a blue mountain bull tag, most guys wouldn't be as nice as your friend.