Raising Pack Goats

[BuckRut]

I am tossing around the idea of building up a herd and breeding and selling pack goats in southwest Montana. I own enough property and have a decent enough knowledge base as far as raising animals but figured I would throw it out here to see if anyone has any pertinent information for me. Is there enough of a market in the area? Anyone know of any place selling registered Oberhasli or Alpine goat? Any goat specific challenges with raising them?

 

[Bachto]

Skalkaho pack goats breeds in your area (Hamilton). They would be a great resource about breeding specifically. There are a decent amount of breeders in the west for pack goats now. I would say there is still a lot of demand for them though as they have become more and more popular. Join the NAPGA (North America pack goat association) facebook page, lots of people on there. I tend to avoid the Pack Goats Facebook page as it is run by Marc who owns Packgoats.com. He isn't friendly to competition and tends to delete and filter out posts that could compete with his business. Nathan Putnam is one of the NAPGA board members and is a great resource as well and is in Idaho.

As far as advice to raising and selling them. Do you own some already and use them for packing? If you don't I would do that first. The best breeders in my opinion are the ones that actually pack with goats.

The main thing with goats is knowing there specific health and nutrition needs that are different for them vs. other animals.

Hope this helps!

 

[brockel]

Lots of alpine goat breeders in western Montana and Idaho. Just cruise Craigslist or Google search breeders. If you don’t have any now you are looking at 3 to 4 years out to be packing on them.

 

[BuckRut]

Skalkaho pack goats breeds in your area (Hamilton). They would be a great resource about breeding specifically. There are a decent amount of breeders in the west for pack goats now. I would say there is still a lot of demand for them though as they have become more and more popular. Join the NAPGA (North America pack goat association) facebook page, lots of people on there. I tend to avoid the Pack Goats Facebook page as it is run by Marc who owns Packgoats.com. He isn't friendly to competition and tends to delete and filter out posts that could compete with his business. Nathan Putnam is one of the NAPGA board members and is a great resource as well and is in Idaho.

As far as advice to raising and selling them. Do you own some already and use them for packing? If you don't I would do that first. The best breeders in my opinion are the ones that actually pack with goats.

The main thing with goats is knowing there specific health and nutrition needs that are different for them vs. other animals.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the input. Don't currently have any packing goats but looking for a place to make an investment and a little side income. Currently have 70 acres and run a few horses for packing so the goats seem like a good opportunity to make good use of the land and get a little extra income. Definitely plan to keep a few whethers to start packing with myself because I agree with you that I would make a poor salesman selling pack goats and telling people I don't know how they pack because I use horses. A herd of 10 does and 2 bucks would be as much work and income as I would hope to get from this endeavor.

 

[Bachto]

Thanks for the input. Don't currently have any packing goats but looking for a place to make an investment and a little side income. Currently have 70 acres and run a few horses for packing so the goats seem like a good opportunity to make good use of the land and get a little extra income. Definitely plan to keep a few whethers to start packing with myself because I agree with you that I would make a poor salesman selling pack goats and telling people I don't know how they pack because I use horses. A herd of 10 does and 2 bucks would be as much work and income as I would hope to get from this endeavor.

There are diary goat breeders that do sell goats as packers that don't pack and sell goats every year so it is possible.

 

[GoatPackr]

I respect people as breeders that actually pack with goats and sell them more than people who sell packgoats and have probably never slept a night in the woods much less want to sell me their "Pack prospects" at 3x the price they typically sell their Wethers just because they used the word packgoat in their description.
If you are going to sell them then please be a breeder that uses them and knows about them.

Where at in SW MT are you?
My parents live on the east side around Stevensville.

Kris

 

[BuckRut]

I respect people as breeders that actually pack with goats and sell them more than people who sell packgoats and have probably never slept a night in the woods much less want to sell me their "Pack prospects" at 3x the price they typically sell their Wethers just because they used the word packgoat in their description.
If you are going to sell them then please be a breeder that uses them and knows about them.

Where at in SW MT are you?
My parents live on the east side around Stevensville.

Kris

I live in Butte but my horse pasture is just outside of Anaconda by the rest area.

 

[Bachto]

I live in Butte but my horse pasture is just outside of Anaconda by the rest area.

What is your plan to keep an eye out on your goats if you live separately from your pasture? I am not a horse guy so I don't know if they will protect another animal from predators or not. Goats are way more vulnerable to predator's than a horse. We had a coyote incident in my pasture and my brother was living in his 5th wheel 20 feet from our goat barn and we still lost a goat.

Do you plan on kidding in the spring at your house and then bringing the goats to the pasture later?

My personal opinion from just keeping goats and not even breeding. I wouldn't keep goats at a pasture I did not live at.

 

[BuckRut]

What is your plan to keep an eye out on your goats if you live separately from your pasture? I am not a horse guy so I don't know if they will protect another animal from predators or not. Goats are way more vulnerable to predator's than a horse. We had a coyote incident in my pasture and my brother was living in his 5th wheel 20 feet from our goat barn and we still lost a goat.

Do you plan on kidding in the spring at your house and then bringing the goats to the pasture later?

My personal opinion from just keeping goats and not even breeding. I wouldn't keep goats at a pasture I did not live at.

That's the other part to this that I have to get figured out before moving forward. I plan to build a couple 50'x50' pens near my feed barn for the goats to live/kid in during the winter and spring that would have coyote proof fencing but it would be nice to turn them loose for the summer to graze the entire property. Definitely still in the research stages on this one.

 

[Bachto]

That's the other part to this that I have to get figured out before moving forward. I plan to build a couple 50'x50' pens near my feed barn for the goats to live/kid in during the winter and spring that would have coyote proof fencing but it would be nice to turn them loose for the summer to graze the entire property. Definitely still in the research stages on this one.

Livestock guardian dogs maybe? Or maybe a couple of llamas? I've heard of them used for predator protection.

 

[GoatPackr]

Like was mentioned you gotta be with the goats due to predators and you will also need to spend time with them constantly in order to have quality animals.
Keeping them in small areas you will just end up with parasite problems. They need room for best health.

Kris

 

[washingtonalpine]

Thanks for the input. Don't currently have any packing goats but looking for a place to make an investment and a little side income. Currently have 70 acres and run a few horses for packing so the goats seem like a good opportunity to make good use of the land and get a little extra income. Definitely plan to keep a few whethers to start packing with myself because I agree with you that I would make a poor salesman selling pack goats and telling people I don't know how they pack because I use horses. A herd of 10 does and 2 bucks would be as much work and income as I would hope to get from this endeavor.

I have run pack goats for about 6 years, currently have 12 packers/ prospects for my personal use that see 300-500 miles per season. I also co-own some breeding stock with a two friends. I hate to rain on the parade, but breeding pack goats is not a profitable business model. We retain a few boys for our own packing each year and sell the rest. If we sold all the kids off each year, It wouldn't even cover the feed costs for the breeding stock alone. Even if you have good pasture, if you want to raise large healthy breeding stock and packers you have to supplement quit a bit with high quality feed, during winter they are 100% on hay/ alfalfa. If you live in an area that has predators, or even a lot of hawks/ eagles (a threat to kids that are a month old or less) LGD's are really the only reliable option. Add the feed cost for 1-2 huge dogs, fencing to keep everything in, shelters and hay storage and the startup costs can be pretty high. Dairy's that raise goats and turn a profit on goats usually rely heavily on selling goat milk and do so on a large scale. Pack goats have been a very reliable stock for me in the backcountry and I've enjoyed watching them grow from a young age, just didn't want you to find out the hard way if you are trying to make extra cash.

 

[BuckRut]

I have run pack goats for about 6 years, currently have 12 packers/ prospects for my personal use that see 300-500 miles per season. I also co-own some breeding stock with a two friends. I hate to rain on the parade, but breeding pack goats is not a profitable business model. We retain a few boys for our own packing each year and sell the rest. If we sold all the kids off each year, It wouldn't even cover the feed costs for the breeding stock alone. Even if you have good pasture, if you want to raise large healthy breeding stock and packers you have to supplement quit a bit with high quality feed, during winter they are 100% on hay/ alfalfa. If you live in an area that has predators, or even a lot of hawks/ eagles (a threat to kids that are a month old or less) LGD's are really the only reliable option. Add the feed cost for 1-2 huge dogs, fencing to keep everything in, shelters and hay storage and the startup costs can be pretty high. Dairy's that raise goats and turn a profit on goats usually rely heavily on selling goat milk and do so on a large scale. Pack goats have been a very reliable stock for me in the backcountry and I've enjoyed watching them grow from a young age, just didn't want you to find out the hard way if you are trying to make extra cash.

Thanks for the insight. I definitely realize the cost associated with the start up and raising of the goats. I have enough good pasture to support the goats for 7-8 months out of the year. The predator and water issue are the only real obstacles I don't have answers for yet. The money side still makes sense for me if I can set them up well enough because I have to drive approx. 30 miles each way daily for work and pass the pasture along the way so that fuel and my horses hay becomes a farm expense which helps my tax situation a bunch.

 

[washingtonalpine]

Thanks for the insight. I definitely realize the cost associated with the start up and raising of the goats. I have enough good pasture to support the goats for 7-8 months out of the year. The predator and water issue are the only real obstacles I don't have answers for yet. The money side still makes sense for me if I can set them up well enough because I have to drive approx. 30 miles each way daily for work and pass the pasture along the way so that fuel and my horses hay becomes a farm expense which helps my tax situation a bunch.

250 gallon water totes with garden hose hooked to a stock tank with auto fill works. The goats will graze one of my properties this summer that has no water and that is what I am doing. Coyotes are pretty easy to fence out with a quality 5' horse fence. I had one coyote get into my pen and my adult alpines (with horns) promptly ran him out of the pasture. I have an LGD now, if you have mountain lions that frequent the area they are the biggest threat and you can't fence them out. Locally near me there have been 6 llamas, 20-30 sheep and a dozen or so goats killed by lions in the last year.

 

[GoatPackr]

Just keep in mind goats are not meant to be grazers like cattle and sheep. They are browsers and need more brush. They prefer the weeds. They'll eat the top 1/3 of vegetation and leave the rest. This can be a good thing since they will eat the tops off all the weeds and over time you will have cleaner pastures.
They will eat grass after everything else is eaten but won't thrive as well on it. They eat more hay in the winter than one would think. Especially the bigger packers that are crossed with the meat breeds.

Kris

 

[BuckRut]

Just keep in mind goats are not meant to be grazers like cattle and sheep. They are browsers and need more brush. They prefer the weeds. They'll eat the top 1/3 of vegetation and leave the rest. This can be a good thing since they will eat the tops off all the weeds and over time you will have cleaner pastures.
They will eat grass after everything else is eaten but won't thrive as well on it. They eat more hay in the winter than one would think. Especially the bigger packers that are crossed with the meat breeds.

Kris

This is another aspect that draws me to the goats. Weed spraying is a pain and I have an old gravel pit that is getting a little overgrown with willow. Are they hard on sagebrush? I would prefer to keep the sage as it provides good cover for ground nesting birds which help with the ticks.

 

[GoatPackr]

Not sure about sage as I live in Western WA but they will love willow along with the bark off a lot of trees that are taller than they can reach.

Kris

 

[Bachto]

This is another aspect that draws me to the goats. Weed spraying is a pain and I have an old gravel pit that is getting a little overgrown with willow. Are they hard on sagebrush? I would prefer to keep the sage as it provides good cover for ground nesting birds which help with the ticks.

I live in eastern WA and we have sage. They don't seem to like it too much, they will browse the fresh growth a bit like a mule deer would but besides that leave it alone.

 

[joshuajackson7]

I have actually just started my own breeding operation and I’ve been packing with Goats for a couple years now. Like everyone’s been saying there’s definitely specific confirmation in a Pack Goat versus breeders that sell prospects I have came to like an alpine cross with a small amount of meat breed and that’s what I’m going for. I have to Alpine crosses that I’ve used to pack the last set of years and been pretty happy with them. My only complaint is they do really well with 30 to 40 pounds but to get the 50 pound loads I think they would need a little bit of more weight to be sufficent there around 180 they are decently tall, and I’ve noticed that as a major advantage in the genetics being on the trail with downfall

 

[mkkjortiz]

Has anyone had issues with predators while hunting? We raise goats as our kids show 4-H and Grange and this is our one big hang up. We are leaning more toward Llamas or mules.