Rab Neutrino Pro vs Montbell Alpine Down Parka

[Bjonesy]

Planning my first elk hunt for next Oct in Co. Puffys are the last layer I need to get and I have it narrowed down to these 2. I will only need it for glassing and sitting still. Has anyone owned both and can weigh in on the pros and cons of real world use? TIA

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[Bluumoon]

Love my Rab puffy. Thing is warm af. Just had a free zipper replacement and paid for down wash/restoration. Find them on sale frequently

 

[Jon_G]

I too considered the Rab but ended up buying the Arcteryx cerium hoody. It's not as puffy looking but somehow packs more down. 850 compared to 800. Maybe not enough to make a difference, but it was to be freezing, freezing cold for me to wear it. Coldest I've worn is in 15° weather with a thermal shirt and I didn't need more. It may be worth mentioning that the outer fabric is a a 15D on the Arcteryx than the Rab though.

 

[Geewhiz]

I too considered the Rab but ended up buying the Arcteryx cerium hoody. It's not as puffy looking but somehow packs more down. 850 compared to 800. Maybe not enough to make a difference, but it was to be freezing, freezing cold for me to wear it. Coldest I've worn is in 15° weather with a thermal shirt and I didn't need more. It may be worth mentioning that the outer fabric is a a 15D on the Arcteryx than the Rab though.

Just because one has 850 fill doesn't necessarily mean its got more down in it than 800 fill down. It depends on how much of each..

The 800 vs 850 has to do with the size of one each individual feather, not how much there is of each. For example a down parka with 20 oz of 700 fill down would be warmer than the same garment with 2 oz of 850 fill down. If that makes sense. Just trying to clarify, it took me a bit to understand it.

 

[Jon_G]

Just because one has 850 fill doesn't necessarily mean its got more down in it than 800 fill down. It depends on how much of each..

The 800 vs 850 has to do with the size of one each individual feather, not how much there is of each. For example a down parka with 20 oz of 700 fill down would be warmer than the same garment with 2 oz of 850 fill down. If that makes sense. Just trying to clarify, it took me a bit to understand it.

Does fill not mean it will loft higher per cubic inch, therefore making it warmer? In the case of these high end jackets, doesn't a higher full make them warmer? I've found that 900 fill jackets are classified as extreme cold weather jackets in the case of jackets from mammut for example. Not saying you're incorrectas I'd like to understand it better if I'm not getting it.

 

[nagibson1]

The higher fill "power" (650-900 fill) IS warmer RELTATIVE TO FILL WEIGHT. So a 900 fill power is warmer than a 700 fill power with the same fill weight. So if they both have 5oz of down (weight), the 900 power will be warmer. But if a 700 fill power has 7.5oz, and another has 5.6oz weight of 800 fill, the first coat is likely a little warmer.
Example: Rab Neutrino and Positron both have 800 fill POWER.
Neutrino has 7.5 oz of 800 Fill
Positron has 10.6oz of 800 fill.
Thus the positron will be warmer, assuming both shells have similar wind blocking capacity. A puffer with a waterproof shell will be warmer vs. wind (Rab Valiance). So the four main issues are:
1. Shell wind blocking
2. Down fill power and anti-water treatment
3. Fill weight
4. Body coverage- hooded, is it long enough? good wrist seals, etc.
(obviously all these are inversely related to weight. Thus Kuiu superdown ULTRA- with a low down count is ultra light, not ultra warm. The pro is warmer- confusing.)

The reason this is confusing is that most manufacturers hide or do not even list the fill weight, since most people don't know it's a thing. I wish they all listed both values side by side (stone glacier does, and Rab does if you know where to look).

I think you have already won. Both of those will be great jackets, so long as their packable size and weight doesn't annoy you.
However, in my opinion, little sucks during hunting like being freezing while glassing.

 

[Geewhiz]

The higher fill "power" (650-900 fill) IS warmer RELTATIVE TO FILL WEIGHT. So a 900 fill power is warmer than a 700 fill power with the same fill weight. So if they both have 5oz of down (weight), the 900 power will be warmer. But if a 700 fill power has 7.5oz, and another has 5.6oz weight of 800 fill, the first coat is likely a little warmer.
Example: Rab Neutrino and Positron both have 800 fill POWER.
Neutrino has 7.5 oz of 800 Fill
Positron has 10.6oz of 800 fill.
Thus the positron will be warmer, assuming both shells have similar wind blocking capacity. A puffer with a waterproof shell will be warmer vs. wind (Rab Valiance). So the four main issues are:
1. Shell wind blocking
2. Down fill power and anti-water treatment
3. Fill weight
4. Body coverage- hooded, is it long enough? good wrist seals, etc.

The reason this is confusing is that most manufacturers hide or do not even list the fill weight, since most people don't know it's a thing. I wish they all listed both values side by side.

I think you have already won. Both of those will be great jackets, so long as their packable size and weight doesn't annoy you.
However, in my opinion, little sucks during hunting like being freezing while glassing.

What he said

 

[feanor]

I would be interested too. I have an alpine down parka and consider it to be top in class. It weighs in at 16 oz and it crazy warm. But looking at the specs, I think they would both be similar in warmth. If you aren’t pinching ounces or care that much, maybe go with the one you can find cheapest.

 

[Bjonesy]

I'm not super concerned with garment weight (within reason). If a few ounces is the cost of a longer sit or fewer shivers when sleeping, I'll gladly pay it. As far as the monetary payment, Montbell Japan puts the cost at around $183 with the current exchange rate. Now that's hard to beat. But black Friday is around the corner and I've heard Rab's sales are pretty significant. Just trying to get it figured out by then.

Also gonna need pants. Lol. But that's a convo for another thread.

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[CoryM181]

I have tried those specific models but the rab electron has served me well.

 

[brolo]

both have same fill power, neutrino has 0.4 more oz of down than alpine parka. Neutrino’s hood is big enough for helmet, I dont think alpine is helmet compatible. Alpine is ~4oz lighter. Alpine from Japan has left side zipper pull.

I bought alpine from japan website. I have worn it glassing 20-40 deg. When wet or windy (a few times 30+ mph wind) i wear it under my shell. I have worn it with patagonia down sweater underneath standing outside for an hour when it was -20 deg F. Both cases my torso was warm enough i wasnt distracted thinking about temps.

The one which fits you best will prob be warmest. Heads up for different Japanese sizing.

 

[Grady.J]

I have the Neutrino and no regrets, but no experience with the Montbell, so I can't comment on that.

But, just for interests sake, here's some info on fill power testing:

"Fill Power is a measure of how well the down will expand after being compressed. This correlates to warmth for weight and packability. It is NOT a measure of how much down is in a product. There are 2 fill power tests. They are Lorch (EU) and US. The US test returns a higher score for the same down sample. For US fill powers 800 and above then subtract 50 to get the Lorch result. For US Fill Powers below 800, subtract 25 to get the Lorch result. For fill powers below 600 no adjustment is needed.Warning - much detail has been glossed over in this summary, please read below."

Facewest: Down Fill Power Explained

Effectively, the 800fp of Rab or other European companies is equal to 850fp from US companies.

 

[eamyrick]

I’ve now got 20 days hunting in my Mont Bell Alpine Light. Just used for 8 days in Alaska down to 30 with alot of wind including a night bivy in a creek bed. Also used last year in Colorado to -9. To me it’s the perfect weight. My layering system consists of a hooded grid fleece and Patagonia nano synthetic jacket. It will never leave my pack.

For pants I went Mountain Hardwear synthetic and have been very happy. They don’t compress as well as down but after multiple said sitting in the rain and snow they were still very warm.

 

[Bjonesy]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. As of right now I'm leaning towards the Montbell. I can't see Rab being able to compete with the $183 price tag, even on black Friday. Plus I worry the enlarged hood on the Rab will let wind in or be too bulky at best.

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[Trogon]

I have been using the montbell alpine since about 2007 and its still going strong. Highly recommend montbell. They fit a bit small.

I also have a rab alpine light and its great. Rab is good stuff.

Id pick whichever has the color you like and best price. Cant loose here.