Questions about the irrelevance of energy (ft-lbs)

[Stinky Coyote]

Still waiting on some numbers

Me too. And we’ll be waiting a long time, maybe an eternity, before we get them lol.

Still waiting for you to read the whole thread so it doesn’t look like you just jumped in part way and missed the key parts and want to just measure willies or stand up for others.

 

[bmart2622]

Its your "big idea", you keep blabbing on and on about how important it is but want to do nothing to find a solution to a problem that doesn't exist!!! Get off your ass, quit talking, and roll up your sleeves and put in the work to come up with the solution or do EVERYONE a favor and move on!!!

 

[Billogna]

YOU BUY THAT GARMIN AND GEL YET!!? Really looking forward to what you find out!! Please go do it already!! There is no WE here!! YOU must lead us!! But we need results!! Actual gel shot with actual bullets measured with actual measurement thingies!! You're our only hope!!

 

[Stinky Coyote]

YOU BUY THAT GARMIN AND GEL YET!!? Really looking forward to what you find out!! Please go do it already!! There is no WE here!! YOU must lead us!! But we need results!! Actual gel shot with actual bullets measured with actual measurement thingies!! You're our only hope!!

I have a mouse in my pocket, there’s always a ‘we’.

‘We’ are in this together, whether ‘we’ like it or not.

And it will take a lot more of ‘we’ to bring this about. All I did was say ‘look over here’ because ‘we’ keep looking over there.

‘We’ are our only hope. Except bmart, he’s busy pulling crabs back into the bucket.

 

[Bugger]

Start at the start. Does not matter what the wound channel is in animals. What matters is showing/measuring the work in gel constant so we can look for what we want across all bullets for hunting and all impact velocities hunters use.

….what?


I’m out, the most shocking thing of this whole thread is that you’ve got such great internet service from under that bridge you guard.

 

[bmart2622]

^^^^

 

[Billogna]

I have a mouse in my pocket, there’s always a ‘we’.

‘We’ are in this together, whether ‘we’ like it or not.

And it will take a lot more of ‘we’ to bring this about. All I did was say ‘look over here’ because ‘we’ keep looking over there.

‘We’ are our only hope. Except bmart, he’s busy pulling crabs back into the bucket.

Then buy your mouse some ammo and ya'll get to shooting!!

 

[rookieforever33]

I am sorry to hijack this thread for a second, but I cant believe this hasnt turned into a meme thread yet!

 

[fwafwow]

I am sorry to hijack this thread for a second, but I cant believe this hasnt turned into a meme thread yet!

We are maintaining dry powder. And there might be a few MHG members who are only seeing part of this thread. IYKYK

 

[The Fish Box]

I attempted to meme this one to death but it would appear they lacked the ft lbs necessary to kill this beast!!!!! To the ft lbs crowd surely you are shooting at least a .408 cheytac loaded full tilt because everything else lacks the needed energy to kill an armor plated deer right??

 

[EastHumboldt]

https://rokslide.com/forums/attachments/ftlbs-jpg.861480/

I don't know why, but I have a desire to stir the pot today.

Love you guys!

Ow that’s what I’m talking bout. Wallop!!!!

 

[FredH]

So you're using velocity and bullet construction to predict aspects of terminal performance...

It's almost like that's what everyone's been saying this entire time...

Wow you really are great at missing the point. Can you hit anything with a rifle? If the bullet weighs nothing what do you have? 0 energy.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Wow you really are great at missing the point.

That feeling is mutual.

 

[FredH]

Just bringing the conversation back around to 'energy is needed for penetration through shoulders/angled shots", which you brought up earlier.

Also, there is a 71 fps impact velocity difference, less than the SD of some boxes of ammo. We aren't talking 1800 fps vs 2800 fps, we are talking 2647 fps vs 2718 fps.

I'm also glad you came around to realizing that velocity is the driver of expansion, bullet construction determines how it expands and comes apart.

Without mass there is no bullet performance is there? The more energy which is a combination of mass and velocity the more potential for the kind of bullet performance you seek. Not really a fan of counting on bullet fragmentation though it is part of a bullets ability to destroy tissue. A bullet that fragments loses penetration and can be overly destructive of meat.

 

[FredH]

That feeling is mutual.

Well without mass you have nothing right?

 

[Bluefish]

Well without mass you have nothing right?

You are making a straw man argument. We are talking centerfire rifles, not BB guns or ping pong balls. That means 70-225g. Any bullet in that range can take a deer or elk if it’s the right construction and velocity as you so eloquently stated.

Hard to predict wounding by simply looking at the mass of a bullet, just like looking at energy alone does not predict the performance on an animal. Could be called irrelevant.

 

[WTFJohn]

Without mass there is no bullet performance is there? The more energy which is a combination of mass and velocity the more potential for the kind of bullet performance you seek. Not really a fan of counting on bullet fragmentation though it is part of a bullets ability to destroy tissue. A bullet that fragments loses penetration and can be overly destructive of meat.

Without mass there is no bullet.

The bullets below have exactly the same mass. One will have 326 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, the other has that energy at over 2500 yards. Knowing they both have the same mass and same energy, can we expect the same performance?

The answer is no. Each bullet is designed & constructed to work in a velocity window, not at an energy level.

You continually deflect from answering questions or addressing information that completely rebuts what you're saying. At this point, it's hard to say you're having the conversation in good faith.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

You continually deflect from answering questions or addressing information that completely rebuts what you're saying. At this point, it's hard to say you're having the conversation in good faith.

He can't directly answer any of the questions asked because the answers would contradict his argument.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

So you're using velocity and bullet construction to predict aspects of terminal performance...

It's almost like that's what everyone's been saying this entire time...

It’s ‘part of’ ALL we’ve ever said, and we’ve said so much more. 30 pages just this one thread alone and surely it’s not done yet.

Did we get anywhere is the question? No, not even a mm further.

The next question is why didn’t we get anywhere?

Would it have anything to do with lack of available objective information about the delivery of the work?

 

[FredH]

Without mass there is no bullet.

The bullets below have exactly the same mass. One will have 326 ft lbs of energy at the muzzle, the other has that energy at over 2500 yards. Knowing they both have the same mass and same energy, can we expect the same performance?

The answer is no. Each bullet is designed & constructed to work in a velocity window, not at an energy level.

You continually deflect from answering questions or addressing information that completely rebuts what you're saying. At this point, it's hard to say you're having the conversation in good faith.

View attachment 861915

Is the concept of mass and velocity impossible for you to comprehend? Why make up some irrelevant comparison? Why not consider equal velocity and construction with the variation being weight? Mass counts.