Question for the guys with gsps

[Jacobo2012]

Good evening, I’ve long dreamt of getting a gsp and my wife is a dog lover. An old friend we used to work with bought a gsp 2 years ago and was looking to re home it because they didn’t have time for it and had no intentions of hunting with it. The dog doesn’t listen one bit about all she knows is sit. She doesn’t come when called we’ve been letting her run 30-45 min twice a day in a paddock of our pasture that’s fenced off. She won’t fetch she just kind of runs around. It’s a chore to get her back on leash to walk back in the house. She’s not very food motivated when it comes to trying to teach her to come or lay down or stay. Maybe I need to go to lunch meat or chicken liver or something better than dog treats. I guess my questions are has anyone adopted a dog around this stage of life and got them trained up and to point birds? I plan on hunting quail, grouse and maybe some pheasants. I plan on getting her to trust us first obviously as she’s probably still not adjusted to having new owners. Then basic obedience and then hopefully slowly introduce her to gunfire and chasing birds out in the hills. Was wondering if people have any experience with upland institute or has experience with any other online training programs?



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[Billinsd]

Are you joking or serious?

 

[KurtR]

Ya if this is your first dog you have your hands full. If the dog doesn’t have any natural talent which is what I hear pointer people talking about all the time you have an up hill battle. You should contact a bird dog trainer in your area for hands on help.

 

[Aaron-in-CO]

I can't really speak on what it takes to develop a great bird dog as my own dog-training and upland hunting experience is quite limited. But I did get a 7-ish year old (now 8) GSP from a shelter a little over a year ago. Similar to your situation, my dog did not listen too well and was not food motivated whatsoever when outside.

We found a number of approaches to be helpful (again, more for general obedience than for training an all-star bird dog):
- Training voice commands for short periods in a low-distraction environment (ie in the house). He was a bit more food motivated this way as well.
- Lots of leash training. Not allowing any forward progress when the leash is tight. At first, a 30-second walk down and back in the exterior hallway of our apartment was a big deal.
- Make them work (ie mental/physical stimulation) for their food. I hide kibble all around the house and make him sniff it out. We also use pet food puzzles/dispensers.
- Herm-Sprenger prong collar and/or Gentle Leader so you don't both go crazy on the leash.
- Most important in my opinion is an e-collar. Use it for reinforcing known commands, not for learning new ones. It's an actual life-saver. He will frequently not be able to hear me outside due to being so focused, too far out, or because he is making noise moving through snow/brush, and the e-collar (at low stim) just gives him the equivalent of a little tap on the shoulder. Do your own research.

Like I said, he is no all-star and neither am I. But we still have tons of fun poking around for grouse, squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, duck etc.

 

[jmez]

Food motivation should have no bearing on your training IMO. The dog should obey whether hungry or not.

The dog needs discipline. You can't teach it to hunt. It will or it won't.


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[SwiftShot]

You have a hard road. It can be done but it is not easy. First you need totrain her to listen to you. If a dog doesnt listen nothing will work. Food motivation is huge. You need to establish you are the pack leader. She doesnt eat until you allow it. Very simple step one. Make her sit until you release her to eat. Nobody feeds her but you for awhile. Trained up 2 dogs from others before. 1 turned out amazing other was ok but just did not have the head for it.

 

[Jacobo2012]

Ya if this is your first dog you have your hands full. If the dog doesn’t have any natural talent which is what I hear pointer people talking about all the time you have an up hill battle. You should contact a bird dog trainer in your area for hands on help.

Thanks! She’s not our first dog we also have a golden retriever whom is a great listener but we trained him as a pup and is still a pup at only 1 and a German shepherd and she’s a descent dog as well and is about 5 both trained since there puppy days though. I have been reaching out to a lot of them in the area


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[Jacobo2012]

I can't really speak on what it takes to develop a great bird dog as my own dog-training and upland hunting experience is quite limited. But I did get a 7-ish year old (now 8) GSP from a shelter a little over a year ago. Similar to your situation, my dog did not listen too well and was not food motivated whatsoever when outside.

We found a number of approaches to be helpful (again, more for general obedience than for training an all-star bird dog):
- Training voice commands for short periods in a low-distraction environment (ie in the house). He was a bit more food motivated this way as well.
- Lots of leash training. Not allowing any forward progress when the leash is tight. At first, a 30-second walk down and back in the exterior hallway of our apartment was a big deal.
- Make them work (ie mental/physical stimulation) for their food. I hide kibble all around the house and make him sniff it out. We also use pet food puzzles/dispensers.
- Herm-Sprenger prong collar and/or Gentle Leader so you don't both go crazy on the leash.
- Most important in my opinion is an e-collar. Use it for reinforcing known commands, not for learning new ones. It's an actual life-saver. He will frequently not be able to hear me outside due to being so focused, too far out, or because he is making noise moving through snow/brush, and the e-collar (at low stim) just gives him the equivalent of a little tap on the shoulder. Do your own research.

Like I said, he is no all-star and neither am I. But we still have tons of fun poking around for grouse, squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, duck etc.

Thanks I am working on her with sit and stay and she’s getting it. She waits to be released to eat after being told to sit. Once we get outside though all bets are off! I’m aware it’ll take quite a bit of time so just gotta be patient and continue to work with her


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[Jacobo2012]

I can't really speak on what it takes to develop a great bird dog as my own dog-training and upland hunting experience is quite limited. But I did get a 7-ish year old (now 8) GSP from a shelter a little over a year ago. Similar to your situation, my dog did not listen too well and was not food motivated whatsoever when outside.

We found a number of approaches to be helpful (again, more for general obedience than for training an all-star bird dog):
- Training voice commands for short periods in a low-distraction environment (ie in the house). He was a bit more food motivated this way as well.
- Lots of leash training. Not allowing any forward progress when the leash is tight. At first, a 30-second walk down and back in the exterior hallway of our apartment was a big deal.
- Make them work (ie mental/physical stimulation) for their food. I hide kibble all around the house and make him sniff it out. We also use pet food puzzles/dispensers.
- Herm-Sprenger prong collar and/or Gentle Leader so you don't both go crazy on the leash.
- Most important in my opinion is an e-collar. Use it for reinforcing known commands, not for learning new ones. It's an actual life-saver. He will frequently not be able to hear me outside due to being so focused, too far out, or because he is making noise moving through snow/brush, and the e-collar (at low stim) just gives him the equivalent of a little tap on the shoulder. Do your own research.

Like I said, he is no all-star and neither am I. But we still have tons of fun poking around for grouse, squirrel, rabbit, pheasant, duck etc.

Thanks I am working on her with sit and stay and she’s getting it. She waits to be released to eat after being told to sit. Once we get outside though all bets are off! I’m aware it’ll take quite a bit of time so just gotta be patient and continue to work with her


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[KHNC]

E-collar is definitely the way to go. Our GSP is 18 months now. Got her at 9 weeks. E-collar only has to beep to get full compliance , and it didnt take long to learn either.

 

[jmez]

No discipline is bad but for a pointing gun dog, come here and whoa are the only two commands they need to know. They need to know them well. They need to respond to either every time and immediately, no matter what they are doing.

You can teach stay but IMO you are better served with whoa. You can use whoa in place of stay if needed. You can't use stay in place of whoa. Whoa means we immediately stop whatever it is we are doing and we remain in place until released. Period, no exceptions. A half a step is too much.

 

[Slewwater]

My gsp needed an e-collar to reign in his spirited running. I would issue the command, beep if non-compliant, then shock like Zeus if still non-compliant. Very quickly learned to comply at the beep, and with work learned to just comply at the command. We work daily with "stay" by throwing meat in the trees/yard and having him stay for 30 second to 15 minutes until we release him. Now he's a statue until called and freezes on command.

Mine was also gun shy as a pup; but that was cured as soon as he got his mouth on a shot pheasant. Maybe the pointing will likewise come once the dog gets a whiff of upland hunting.

Gsp's are not natural retrievers but they are smart and love running; with practice, treats, and patience the fetching should come around. Just stand and wait for the retrieve or offer a treat - you don't want to condition an expectation for a chasing game.

And if at the end of the day the dog just don't hunt, gsp's are fantastic lap dogs that want nothing more than affection and attention. But oh lord do they need exercise. Best of luck.

 

[manitou1]

Get some good training videos.
You need to establish trust and a relationship with the dog first. If you strap an e-collar on it and start zapping away, you will ruin what chance you have of making a hunter out of it, IMO.

Get the obedience down, which takes time and patience. Praise it and make it fun when it does something correctly, no matter how small a feat. Once you start training on birds... and you WILL NEED birds, whether it be pen raised quail or pigeons, you need to make it FUN for the dog for the first months. If you start yelling, hitting, or shocking a dog during it's first months of bird exposure you might as well hang it up... you or the dog are not cut out for bird hunting.

A lead is your friend. Work the dog on a lead and always have it dragging that lead when you are out running it while training.
If used correctly, that lead will teach and remind the dog that YOU are in control. It will also help keep the pup in shape. If the dog runs by you when you "whoa", step on the lead.
When the pup is on the lead and you on the other end, while out walking suddenly change directions and let it hit the end of the lead with a "slight jerk". Do this training frequently and the pup will learn to watch you and travel WITH YOU instead of going on it's own all the time.

Like I stated earlier, get some good videos of reputable trainers and make it fun for both of you. As the dog progresses, you will find much pride and excitement, in both of you.

Also, if the pup feels you respect and love it, it will work hard for you. Treat it as a buddy and not a tool and it will be a better dog.

Chances are that dog has a high prey drive causing it to be obnoxious, which is a good thing once harnessed.

See if you can find someone that can provide bird wings, pigeon or upland bird.
Get a long pole (cane pole, fishing pole).
Tie a 10" piece of fishing lone to the tip of the pole and the other end of the lone to the wing.
Toss the wing out and let the dog smell it. See if it shows interest. If it makes a move toward the wing, yanks the wing up and out of reach to land in another spot. Never let the pup catch it. This will introduce the dog to holding point as whenever he/she advances toward the wing, it "takes off".
This will give you an idea of whether the dog has a nose and pointing instinct.
I used this method for my dogs and (incredibly) some of them would run into the corner of my shop five years later and point the corner where I would lean the pole and wing when storing it.
If you cannot access birds or bird parts, unless that dog is exceptional, you will really struggle trying to train it to hunt birds. This has been my experience anyway.

There is much more. I am no expert but have trained what turned out to be some excellent hunters. Some are easier than others, but as a whole I found GSPs to be on the easier side of the training curve compared to some breeds. Starting a two month old pup is always easier than a two year old IMO though. I have actually killed birds over 3.5 month old pups that held point and that really "got it" and were exceptional.

I recommend George Hickox and also Huntsmith (Smith Brothers) videos.

Good luck.

 

[Jacobo2012]

Thank you guys for the replies. they gave us a shock collar with her and we decided to ditch it instead of just zapping away at a dog that for one doesn’t quite yet know who we are and 2 doesn’t trust us yet. But sounds like it may be needed to reenforce commands in the future if needed. I was planning on heading over to the library this weekend and looking for some books on training dogs. I’ll also look into videos. It’s my first go at a bird dog so will be interesting but worst case she ends up a family dog I’d love for her to be trained enough to go on off leash runs and hikes but that will probably take a quite a bit of time.


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[jmez]

Training Pointing Dogs by Paul Long. Will be the best $10 you spend. Everything you need to know is in that book.

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[KurtR]

Thank you guys for the replies. they gave us a shock collar with her and we decided to ditch it instead of just zapping away at a dog that for one doesn’t quite yet know who we are and 2 doesn’t trust us yet. But sounds like it may be needed to reenforce commands in the future if needed. I was planning on heading over to the library this weekend and looking for some books on training dogs. I’ll also look into videos. It’s my first go at a bird dog so will be interesting but worst case she ends up a family dog I’d love for her to be trained enough to go on off leash runs and hikes but that will probably take a quite a bit of time.


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Don’t just slap a collar on. Teach first and then collar condition to known commands . Long lead is the best thing you can use now and never repeat a command say it once and correct as needed

 

[Jacobo2012]

Don’t just slap a collar on. Teach first and then collar condition to known commands . Long lead is the best thing you can use now and never repeat a command say it once and correct as needed

Got it thanks! Just hope she doesn’t wrap her self up in it


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[jmez]

She won't wrap herself up. My GSP is two and drags a 30ft check cord unless we are in cattails.

Good advice by Kurt, give a command once and make her obey. Don't give a command you are not in a position to enforce. If you do you enforce that she doesn't need to listen.

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[cacklercrazy]

Good evening, I’ve long dreamt of getting a gsp and my wife is a dog lover. An old friend we used to work with bought a gsp 2 years ago and was looking to re home it because they didn’t have time for it and had no intentions of hunting with it. The dog doesn’t listen one bit about all she knows is sit. She doesn’t come when called we’ve been letting her run 30-45 min twice a day in a paddock of our pasture that’s fenced off. She won’t fetch she just kind of runs around. It’s a chore to get her back on leash to walk back in the house. She’s not very food motivated when it comes to trying to teach her to come or lay down or stay. Maybe I need to go to lunch meat or chicken liver or something better than dog treats. I guess my questions are has anyone adopted a dog around this stage of life and got them trained up and to point birds? I plan on hunting quail, grouse and maybe some pheasants. I plan on getting her to trust us first obviously as she’s probably still not adjusted to having new owners. Then basic obedience and then hopefully slowly introduce her to gunfire and chasing birds out in the hills. Was wondering if people have any experience with upland institute or has experience with any other online training programs?



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First off leash obidense is where you start. Sit come stay. This will take several weeks. Then shock collar training. My GSP didn't like to retrieve either. She had to be forced fetched. Yes there are programs out there. They all take time and dedication.