WTS/WTT Public service announcement

[Buzby]

The better question is where did you get the idea that you can't buy scopes and gun parts with PP? You may not know, but eBay used to own PP.

But just as an example... Look at the payment methods accepted.

Another.

Another.

I'm not the biggest fan of PP, but internet BS is just that.

(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

Pretty vague, eh? If for some reason a transaction is flagged as one of the above, and it does happen, good luck. I’ve had to deal with PayPal’s “customer service.” It’s anything but. Dealing with them was a night mare. No one that you talk to speaks English as a first language, and they don’t have the power to resolve anything anyway. If there’s any BS, it’s on PayPal’s side.

I can find many people claiming first hand experience of PayPal getting it wrong. It they do, there’s little you can do about it.

Example

“The real risk lies with sellers using PayPal to receive funds. Last Sept to Dec of 2020 I sold over 120 AAC 51T mounts I was flipping for a profit on EBay and Gunbroker. 80% of my transactions where through PayPal. I always requested “no notes” from every buyer, but two jackasses put notes like “for gunbroker item #123456..”.

Sure enough PayPal locked my account last year. Said I violated their user agreement that states: “no firearms, no ammunition, and CERTAIN firearms parts and accessories”. Yes it really is that vague.

My account still has over $800 in it. They froze it and said I could retrieve the money after 180 days. On day 175 they withdrew the money out of my account and said it was for “damages from violating the user agreement”. Which is buried deep in their agreement is the right for them to charge you up to $2,500 per perceived violation of their agreement.

I didn’t realize this was a thing until it happened to me. Started researching online and they have done this to thousands of people. Luckily for my I had just transferred $3,000 out of the account two days before. The freeze came without any type of warning or indication it might happen.”

 

[antelopedundee]

(j) ammunition, firearms, or certain firearm parts or accessories, or (k) certain weapons or knives regulated under applicable law.

Pretty vague, eh? If for some reason a transaction is flagged as one of the above, and it does happen, good luck. I’ve had to deal with PayPal’s “customer service.” It’s anything but. Dealing with them was a night mare. No one that you talk to speaks English as a first language, and they don’t have the power to resolve anything anyway. If there’s any BS, it’s on PayPal’s side.

I can find many people claiming first hand experience of PayPal getting it wrong. It they do, there’s little you can do about it.

Example

“The real risk lies with sellers using PayPal to receive funds. Last Sept to Dec of 2020 I sold over 120 AAC 51T mounts I was flipping for a profit on EBay and Gunbroker. 80% of my transactions where through PayPal. I always requested “no notes” from every buyer, but two jackasses put notes like “for gunbroker item #123456..”.

Sure enough PayPal locked my account last year. Said I violated their user agreement that states: “no firearms, no ammunition, and CERTAIN firearms parts and accessories”. Yes it really is that vague.

My account still has over $800 in it. They froze it and said I could retrieve the money after 180 days. On day 175 they withdrew the money out of my account and said it was for “damages from violating the user agreement”. Which is buried deep in their agreement is the right for them to charge you up to $2,500 per perceived violation of their agreement.

I didn’t realize this was a thing until it happened to me. Started researching online and they have done this to thousands of people. Luckily for my I had just transferred $3,000 out of the account two days before. The freeze came without any type of warning or indication it might happen.”

Remember back in the day when PP could suck money out of your associated bank account WITHOUT YOUR APPROVAL? Many folks had multiple bank accounts, but the one associated with their PP account had very little or NO balance.

 

[rodney482]

I shitcanned PP 2 yrs ago and could not be happier

 

[littlefish]

PayPal can and will lock your account and take your money if they perceive you as buying or selling anything even tangentially related to firearms. You should always insist on NO NOTES on anything you sell. If someone puts in a note I’ve refunded their purchase and moved on to the next buyer. Go look at the Reddit GAFS sub and see how strict guys are over there. There’s buyers and sellers over there moving much more items than anyone here.

As far as sellers insisting on not using G&S for fear of the tax implications they don’t understand how taxes work. If you’re selling gear at a loss (pretty much how everything goes for selling) you’re not obligated to pay taxes. If you buy a scope for $1,000 and sell it for $900, you didn’t make $900, you lost $100. You’re not obligated to pay tax on that $900 since it isn’t profit.

 

[5MilesBack]

Nope, unless that’s your business

That's the problem......the government is "making" it our business. We sell $600 worth of items and they immediately classify us as a business and send out a 1099, forcing us to keep track of all purchases and sales. The ATF now says that if we sell too many guns or too often, then we're a dealer. If you sell too many bottles of wine, they classify you as a dealer.

If they say we're dealers, then it IS our business and you can be darn sure that I'm calculating all losses as well.

 

[antelopedundee]

PayPal can and will lock your account and take your money if they perceive you as buying or selling anything even tangentially related to firearms. You should always insist on NO NOTES on anything you sell. If someone puts in a note I’ve refunded their purchase and moved on to the next buyer. Go look at the Reddit GAFS sub and see how strict guys are over there. There’s buyers and sellers over there moving much more items than anyone here.

As far as sellers insisting on not using G&S for fear of the tax implications they don’t understand how taxes work. If you’re selling gear at a loss (pretty much how everything goes for selling) you’re not obligated to pay taxes. If you buy a scope for $1,000 and sell it for $900, you didn’t make $900, you lost $100. You’re not obligated to pay tax on that $900 since it isn’t profit.

Still even tho a loss, the IRS now knows that you received $900. Now it's up to you [in the event of an audit] to be able to prove there was no profit. Best save those receipts. If you sold 10 scopes at a $100 loss on each that would be $9000 on your 1099-K.

The other thing is why get on their radar for things like that?

Has anyone ever been called on the carpet for using a no fee service to sell G & S where the buyer says thanks for car parts or whatever the item was?

 

[fwafwow]

Please note. I don’t personally care whether you follow the rules for paying your taxes. I figure most people don’t follow the rules exactly, but I’m just responding below to clarify some inaccuracies.

That's the problem......the government is "making" it our business. We sell $600 worth of items and they immediately classify us as a business and send out a 1099, forcing us to keep track of all purchases and sales.

I should have been more clear - you can’t deduct the losses unless you have a “trade or business” and getting a 1099-K doesn’t alone creat one. And even the IRS FAQ for this new rule says while keeping receipts is beneficial, it’s not required.

The ATF now says that if we sell too many guns or too often, then we're a dealer.

This isn’t true. There’s another thread in which this rumor was dispelled.

If they say we're dealers, then it IS our business and you can be darn sure that I'm calculating all losses as well.

As I said above, I figure many or most will take this approach. But it’s technically incorrect.

 

[5MilesBack]

As I said above, I figure many or most will take this approach. But it’s technically incorrect.

I understand how the code is written, but I don't see this as incorrect when the IRS themselves are the ones that are putting us into this position. That was their choice.......not ours. And in my tax world, they can't just indiscriminately reject losses, while mandating taxing gains. Ultimately this will probably never impact most folks except for getting the 1099's. And for most folks, even after an audit.....excluding losses would create a very minimal tax event even with penalties. And if it gets into much bigger numbers, then it really is a business.

 

[fwafwow]

I understand how the code is written, but I don't see this as incorrect when the IRS themselves are the ones that are putting us into this position. That was their choice.......not ours.

It was Congress that changed the reporting rule.

And in my tax world, they can't just indiscriminately reject losses, while mandating taxing gains.

The rule has nothing to do with changing the definition of income and or permissible deductions. You weren’t able to deduct what you say are “losses” before and that hasn’t changed.

Ultimately this will probably never impact most folks except for getting the 1099's.

Agreed. I expect to get a 1099 and I’m not worried.

And for most folks, even after an audit.....excluding losses would create a very minimal tax event even with penalties.

Again, selling personal assets for less than what you paid has never been a deductible “loss”.

 

[antelopedundee]

It was Congress that changed the reporting rule.

The rule has nothing to do with changing the definition of income and or permissible deductions. You weren’t able to deduct what you say are “losses” before and that hasn’t changed.

Agreed. I expect to get a 1099 and I’m not worried.

Again, selling personal assets for less than what you paid has never been a deductible “loss”.

In your opinion what amount of 1099-K dollars would catch the attention of the IRS? If you sold $50K worth of items [all at a loss] you'd most likely need some sort of proof of what you paid in order to claim the loss.

 

[fwafwow]

In your opinion what amount of 1099-K dollars would catch the attention of the IRS?

No idea. There may be a CPA in the crowd who would be better able to answer. It could be an algorithm or formula.

If you sold $50K worth of items [all at a loss] you'd most likely need some sort of proof of what you paid in order to claim the loss.

You would probably need to be able to demonstrate the proceeds are not income. You won’t claim a loss (again, unless you are in the trade or business of selling said items).