Project 2025 and public lands and environment

[Jason Snyder]

I beg to differ. They are up to six grazing allotments now. And last I looked AP was allowing only one (small) block management unit for public hunting. That is a drop in the bucket compared to how much land they occupy that can’t be hunted. As far as access to public lands is concerned, the last AP Podcast I listened to Gerrity was trying to establish corridors for Wolves and Grizzlies. CBD is the largest anti-hunting group on the planet and they endorse AP. I have never had CBD endorse anything I was ever involved with. Read this:

“Attorney General Knudsen’s appeal asks the U.S. Department of the Interior Office of Hearings and Appeals to overturn the decision and issue a stay until the appeal is resolved to prevent irreparable harm to the grazing allotments and surrounding communities, said a Knudsen news release.

“The BLM’s decision ignores the real concerns of rural communities and ranchers who rely on the land in favor of elitist attitudes of those seeking to transform Northeast Montana into a wildlife viewing shed for tourists. Agriculture is not an easy way of life, but Montana ranch families – including my own – are proud of their history and heritage that is still a part of our state today,” Attorney General Knudsen said. “As American Prairie Reserve occupies more and more land here, it pushes out ranching communities, threatens our livestock industry, and will ultimately add to the instability of the world’s food supply.”

I’m not going to argue with you. You obviously don’t like facts.

APR purchases are no different than the Wilks brothers, except APR allows access

Hunting

americanprairie.org

 

[PLhunter]

gas light away. you guys can organize all you want. i am on the finding fraud, waste, and abuse train. Liking what i am seeing. Government employee don't even want to report to the office still. There are issues in this world more important than hunting once every 5 years on BLM to me. Until the big issues get solved, I am not really interested in what you guys are saying here. Good Luck to you.

I mean what he said about your phrasing isn’t gas lighting. Those are absolutely valid points and backed up. That is indeed not where 40% of the funding was going. I’m not sure any surgeries were included in the DOI funding. That is not at all gaslighting…

 

[ncstatehunter]

Look, if you say we need more funding to protect and manage our public lands so they don’t get sold to the highest bidder and turn around and claim shutting down frivolous spending in the budget that doesn’t benefit the citizenry of this country is a bad thing then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Shutting that stuff down leaves more monies to be spent on actual benefits to our citizenry I.e. public lands. It’s up to us to hold our elected officials to that standard and voice where we want our money smartly spent. Identifying, cutting and smartly allocating a budget is possible. I think that’s the whole point @CJ19 is making and I agree with.

 

[Ozarkansas]

gas light away. you guys can organize all you want. i am on the finding fraud, waste, and abuse train. Liking what i am seeing. Government employee don't even want to report to the office still. There are issues in this world more important than hunting once every 5 years on BLM to me. Until the big issues get solved, I am not really interested in what you guys are saying here. Good Luck to you.

I’m not gaslighting, and I’m not sure what part of my comment could be construed that way.

Anyway, that’s fine if you consider there to be bigger issues, that doesn’t mean you have to support every action this administration does. If you see them do something you disagree with, even if you agree with 99% of what they do, you should still call out the parts you don’t like. Saying “don’t sell off public lands” doesn’t make you become a pink-haired leftist. Then again, if you’re only using public land every 5 years, you always have the option of saying “I don’t care about that” and moving along, rather than trying to defend the position.

 

[CJ19]

I’m not gaslighting, and I’m not sure what part of my comment could be construed that way.

Anyway, that’s fine if you consider there to be bigger issues, that doesn’t mean you have to support every action this administration does. If you see them do something you disagree with, even if you agree with 99% of what they do, you should still call out the parts you don’t like. Saying “don’t sell off public lands” doesn’t make you become a pink-haired leftist. Then again, if you’re only using public land every 5 years, you always have the option of saying “I don’t care about that” and moving along, rather than trying to defend the position.

I will be contacting my legislator to let them know i want to hold public lands if that comes on the table. but thats about where it stops for me. i will not be joining bha or some such nonsense. RMEF NWTF are about as far as ill go.

 

[PLhunter]

Look, if you say we need more funding to protect and manage our public lands so they don’t get sold to the highest bidder and turn around and claim shutting down frivolous spending in the budget that doesn’t benefit the citizenry of this country is a bad thing then you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Shutting that stuff down leaves more monies to be spent on actual benefits to our citizenry I.e. public lands. It’s up to us to hold our elected officials to that standard. Identifying, cutting and smartly allocating a budget is possible. I think that’s the whole point @CJ19 is making and I agree with.

I’m fine with shutting down frivolous spending. But equally concerned with not spending on what needs spending. Also, his example of the quantity and the extreme examples of surgeries and men in women’s locker rooms etc.. as to where it’s going was a stretch worth calling out. Those projects whether you agree with the justice 40 initiative were far more than that and didn’t even include earmarks for some of it. Some projects funded by it you would agree with others you wouldn’t. It was portrayed different than the hard reality. Can we agree on that?

 

[PLhunter]

I will be contacting my legislator to let them know i want to hold public lands if that comes on the table. but thats about where it stops for me. i will not be joining bha or some such nonsense. RMEF NWTF are about as far as ill go.

Mule deer foundation is another good one.

 

[CJ19]

Mule deer foundation is another good one.

i am sure there are lots of good ones that I just have not had time to look into. Another issue that I don't want to get into a heated debate is that there are just too many NGOs sucking the public funding teet atm. I don't have a problem with them existing and advocating for their interests but getting direct or secret indirect tax payer money needs to stop imo.

 

[ncstatehunter]

I’m fine with shutting down frivolous spending. But equally concerned with not spending on what needs spending.

Which is why I said make your voice heard then. Or push for non-profit and private enterprises to do those same things on public. I hate that just because something is state or federally owned it locks us the citizen or entity out or have to wade through a ton of red tape to do something that will benefit us all. It shouldn’t solely fall on the government to do so, yet that’s the system we have. Hell, let some guys go on public and do some work to manage it to benefit the wildlife. Cheatgrass removal and fence work is a good start but there’s so much more that we either aren’t allowed to do or the red tape to get to do it creates a block no one wants to attempt to get past. Not enough in the budget? Let me at it with a tractor and chain saws! The public land users needs to be involved in maintenance and improvement IMO, not just some hired govt contractor or employee but that’s just my thoughts. I know you aren’t advocating an all or nothing approach but to be realistic there will have to be pain shared by all to get us out of this whole. Because no one wants to be in office when that happens we just kick the can down the road making the cure even more painful. And unfortunately it’s probably going to make a lot of people unhappy, including us public land users. Unless the US has a rich uncle we don’t know about….

 

[Gila]

They require special fencing because the cattle industry lobbies and requires they be fenced in. They don’t actually “require” fencing if we’d move off the ridiculous practice of calling them livestock instead of wildlife.

There isn’t a bison out there that doesn’t have bovine DNA. Buffalo need special fencing or they herd up and stampede through a normal range fence. Bison will never be managed as wildlife. I live in the middle of open range. Do I want bison showing up at my fences? The answer is hell no!

 

[Kramerica3]

Our current DOI secretary is in politics because he was hand selected and bankrolled by his former boss. You may have heard of him as the owner of a small company known as Microsoft. Seemingly not coincidentally the same guy that is the largest private landowner in America. If they sell off public lands, there will be about 10 buyers that can compete in that market.

Depends how they do it. Trump and gates don’t really align. I’d hope trump would be smarter than to just sell it off to a few billionaires. I’m not for that. I think I’ve made that pretty clear. Like I said I rather see smaller tracts but if it went the way you described yes that’d be a bad day for everyone.

 

[PLhunter]

i am sure there are lots of good ones that I just have not had time to look into. Another issue that I don't want to get into a heated debate is that there are just too many NGOs sucking the public funding teet atm. I don't have a problem with them existing and advocating for their interests but getting direct or secret indirect tax payer money needs to stop imo.

That’s could very well be true. End established industry corporate subsidies and then NGOs funding and maybe see what happens. There are times where having a non profit volunteer group do the work has savings but it’s sooo broad sweeping it’s difficult to track. My partner is in a non profit and has done grant work lol I think what she’s done is great and has a positive impact but then again you may disagree just depends on how highly you prioritize energy savings. Which varies person to person.

 

[PLhunter]

Which is why I said make your voice heard then. Or push for non-profit and private enterprises to do those same things on public. I hate that just because something is state or federally owned it locks us the citizen or entity out or have to wade through a ton of red tape to do something that will benefit us all. It shouldn’t solely fall on the government to do so, yet that’s the system we have. Hell, let some guys go on public and do some work to manage it to benefit the wildlife. Cheatgrass removal and fence work is a good start but there’s so much more that we either aren’t allowed to do or the red tape to get to do it creates a block no one wants to attempt to get past. Not enough in the budget? Let me at it with a tractor and chain saws! The public land users needs to be involved in maintenance and improvement IMO, not just some hired govt contractor or employee but that’s just my thoughts. I know you aren’t advocating an all or nothing approach but to be realistic there will have to be pain shared by all to get us out of this whole. Because no one wants to be in office when that happens we just kick the can down the road making the cure even more painful. And unfortunately it’s probably going to make a lot of people unhappy, including us public land users. Unless the US has a rich uncle we don’t know about….

I think what we are allowed to do is more than we realize sometimes. I don’t think we’d get in trouble for pulling invasives (I’ve pulled plenty) or unlawfully planting sage brush. Or even fixing a broken fence. Or he’ll cutting the wires and creating a safe passage through a downed fence. I’ve done both.

I know folks who require their hunting party to cut down X number of saplings at meadow edges before they can pick up a rifle. I think it depends on where you are. Also, the education level. You don’t want someone spreading the wrong seeds etc all over but you also don’t want someone to be afraid to propagate what is needed.

 

[PLhunter]

There isn’t a bison out there that doesn’t have bovine DNA. Buffalo need special fencing or they herd up and stampede through a normal range fence. Bison will never be managed as wildlife. I live in the middle of open range. Do I want bison showing up at my fences? The answer is hell no!

Actually that one is false. Look to Utah and elsewhere. A quick google search is a good friend.

Lol, but let’s not get distracted on this though. We could not be further apart on this particular issue. I’ve hunted free range bison. It was an amazing experience and I’ll advocate for them whenever I can. But having somewhere to advocate for them and hunt them is more important in the short term.

 

[ncstatehunter]

I wish that was the case every where. Technically not allowed to cut trees down in NC on public, results in a ticket. Of course you have to get caught and most people don’t share hunting spots with wardens lol.

 

[Gila]

I’m not going to argue with you. You obviously don’t like facts.

APR purchases are no different than the Wilks brothers, except APR allows access

The local ranchers and farmers should be able to determine their own economy. AP goes in there and offers ridiculous prices for estate sales at auction. I see they upped their block management access but still only a dent.

 

[PLhunter]

I wish that was the case every where. Technically not allowed to cut trees down in NC on public, results in a ticket. Of course you have to get caught and most people don’t share hunting spots with wardens lol.

With your smaller per capita quantity of public lands and the state of hardwood forest health your situation is a lot trickier than the situation in some western wilderness.

 

[Ozarkansas]

I wish that was the case every where. Technically not allowed to cut trees down in NC on public, results in a ticket. Of course you have to get caught and most people don’t share hunting spots with wardens lol.

In Arkansas you can join prescribed burn associations and get tapped to assist with burns. They’ll volunteer to help on public lands too. I wonder if something like that exists for invasive plant removal?

 

[Gila]

It’s also a tricky thing to have worded correctly. Someone could view any game laws as obstructing that right. Or in some future where wildlife populations get depleted to the point a closure is necessary to maintain the resource. It’s a good route to go but needs to be worded very clearly and carefully.

I agree, it would be a tough row to hoe. I think the best course of action is to continue to push the North American Conservation Model and keep the Pittman-Robertson, Dingell Acts alive.

 

[ncstatehunter]

With your smaller per capita quantity of public lands and the state of hardwood forest health your situation is a lot trickier than the situation in some western wilderness.

Smaller per capita maybe, our hardwood health is great minus the trees currently down from Helene. I think, if you were to poll NC public land hunters, especially those of us in the mountains, we’d say management of our National Forests, which just so happen to be where the birthplace of the USNFS started with the Weeks Purchase, is greatly lacking. What was once the deer hunting mecca in the Carolina’s and possibly the SE coming out of WW2 is now a shell of its former self due to lack of cutting and thinning. Granted that’s thanks to our sue happy “tree huggers”, who wouldn’t know good forest management if it bit them. We have great hard mast forage on good mast years but good browse for the most part is lacking, same with turkey brood habitat. I think a vital thing we should all hope for with this administration is reform of some of the judicial laws in regards to environmentalist and animal rights groups suing and holding up management plans while also having their court fees covered. Reform needs to happen there to stop these frivolous suits.