Progression of a 30 Round Group

[huntnful]

Interesting. The eldms have been good to me but this is my first year venturing into the big Berger bullets. The bergers seem to shoot better, neither are bad, but ragged hole groups are hard to pass up. We’ll have to compare notes at the end of the season.

Rumor has it nobody that shoots anything bigger than a 6mm actually kills anything so maybe we’ll get lucky.

Berger's flat freaking shoot most of the time. They hold all the long range records for a reason haha. But ELDM's aren't really too far behind them. And I like unquestionable expansion. I'll personally give up .1-.2 MOA to not have to worry about a bullet pinholing.

But with all that said, I'd take a 215 Hybrid or 180 Hybrid on a once in a lifetime hunt tomorrow and feel plenty confident. I just like the quick expansion and devastation of the ELDM's now.

Those were long shots, and the bucks still died. Also shot a buck at 550 yards with a 230 hybrid and it had massive expansion and performed excellent. The long range kills just had small exits and the bucks were each on their feet for about a minute after impact, with pretty damn good shots in the lungs.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Berger's flat freaking shoot most of the time. They hold all the long range records for a reason haha. But ELDM's aren't really too far behind them. And I like unquestionable expansion. I'll personally give up .1-.2 MOA to not have to worry about a bullet pinholing.

But with all that said, I'd take a 215 Hybrid or 180 Hybrid on a once in a lifetime hunt tomorrow and feel plenty confident. I just like the quick expansion and devastation of the ELDM's now.

Those were long shots, and the bucks still died. Also shot a buck at 550 yards with a 230 hybrid and it had massive expansion and performed excellent. The long range kills just had small exits and the bucks were each on their feet for about a minute after impact, with pretty damn good shots in the lungs.

Eldms have left baseball exits below 2000fps for me on elk, deer and antelope. Hard to ask for anymore more, maybe .2 moa.

 

[Harvey_NW]

All of these were at about .010 jam into the lands. I don’t do anything scientific for finding the lands. Just sharpie the bullets and seat them deeper until the land marks quit showing up, or are super faint. Then raise the die .010.

You don't worry about .010 jam and .001" neck tension being a recipe for a mag full of powder and a stuck bullet after a little carbon fouling in the leade?

 

[huntnful]

You don't worry about .010 jam and .001" neck tension being a recipe for a mag full of powder and a stuck bullet after a little carbon fouling in the leade?

Not in the least man. I’ve tested it with the barrel off. I can shove a long berger or ELDM into the lands about .80-.100 with just the pressure from my thumb. And then pop it right back out with a screwdriver and not change the COAL one bit. It takes very little pressure to remove a bullet that’s only .010 into the lands.

.001 NT is also STOUT. If I don’t feel like setting up my bullet puller in my press, I’ll pull bullets out with a pair of pliers sometimes, and it is no easy task whatsoever lol.

 

[huntnful]

Not in the least man. I’ve tested it with the barrel off. I can shove a long berger or ELDM into the lands about .80-.100 with just the pressure from my thumb. And then pop it right back out with a screwdriver and not change the COAL one bit. It takes very little pressure to remove a bullet that’s only .010 into the lands.

.001 NT is also STOUT. If I don’t feel like setting up my bullet puller in my press, I’ll pull bullets out with a pair of pliers sometimes, and it is no easy task whatsoever lol.

I actually have a chambered barrel in my safe I could demonstrate on. I should make a video of it.

 

[Castle Rock]

I’d add a high quality trigger as essential.

With hunting weight rifles, I’ve been asking for the past year if anyone has an accurate well bedded rifle and changed stock designs with a noticeable change in accuracy. It’s been hard to get even a sliver of hard data that the latest stock designs are making a major improvement over even a classic style stock with add on cheekpiece for proper cheekweld. There must be tangible benefits, albeit somewhat small - some European target stocks of the 1960’s and 1970’s look very much like modern designs yet they didn’t really gain traction for decades, even when shot side by side with more classic designs.

I find that I have to concentrate harder with a crook trigger and shoot really well as a consequence

A stock that tracks well during recoil will always out shoot one which causes the rifle to rear up under recoil
The more recoil the more it matters

 

[huntnful]

I just did more forming. Here’s a GREAT comparison of larger sample size groups and their variances.

The top group is 215 Berger’s. Ignore that one. The bottom one is the same exact forming load I shot in the original post. So this group was 10 shots and landed at a .7 MOA


Now here is the comparison of the earlier 12 shot group.

Variance of nearly 40% with identical loads and shooting conditions. And relatively decently sized groups.

 

[wind gypsy]

That’s primo shooting sir. I’d be very hard pressed to match that with a very light recoiling heavy gamer gun without effing it up!

 

[wind gypsy]

Hahaha I don’t like correcting in the middle of the group. But spoiler alert. This is brand new rifle lol. I bore sighted it, used 3 shots on a blank piece of paper to get a rough zero and then went straight up to the 30 round group. So what you see is shots #4-33 down the barrel.

This is a .75 MOA 30 round group… just forming brass lol. From 300 Norma Mag, to 300 Norma Mag Improved 35 degree shoulder.

Something about a brand new fresh barrel just seems to hammer for those first shots. Maybe it’s my focus is just better when I’m excited about a fresh barrel but they always seem to drive tacks right away. So when people post up a bughole from their brand new barrel and say “I can’t wait to see what it does with some load dev” my thought is usually “about the same, maybe a little worse”.

 

[Castle Rock]

I just did more forming. Here’s a GREAT comparison of larger sample size groups and their variances.

The top group is 215 Berger’s. Ignore that one. The bottom one is the same exact forming load I shot in the original post. So this group was 10 shots and landed at a .7 MOA
View attachment 735203

Now here is the comparison of the earlier 12 shot group.
View attachment 735204
Variance of nearly 40% with identical loads and shooting conditions. And relatively decently sized groups.

Spectacular shooting
Can you elaborate on the point of impact variance

 

[huntnful]

Spectacular shooting
Can you elaborate on the point of impact variance

Oh for sure. I ran out of aim points, and you can’t see it in the photo but the target dot just below the recent 10 shot group already has shots in it. So I just dialed up .3 or .4 Mils so I could use the aim point, but keep the groups separate.

I did make a .1 mil left change after the initial 30 round group. Looks like it’s trending a little more left than .1 mil, but I have no answers there. That’s just shooting and environmentals. When I shot that 30 shot group I had about an 8MPH left wind. Probably should have just left the zero alone honestly.

 

[huntnful]

Last update before I turn the gun back over to my buddy. He brought his ZCO 420 that he got for the gun yesterday, so I mounted it and bore sighted it last night. I loaded 15 rounds of the 215 Hybrid load. Then was shooting this morning before the sun came up.

100 yards. First 5 shots after bore sight. These hit close enough to center that I didn’t feel like need to dial anywhere. Just shot the group, measured, and made a zero adjustment.



I made the rough zero adjustment and just set the zero. My buddy will need to do his own personal zero, based off how he shoots anyways. I went straight to 957 yards to see if drop data was close and that the group held up.


I’m done with “development” at this point and just saved the last 5 loaded rounds for him.

Then I still had 30 pieces of brass to form. So I went to forming. This time I shot it in groups of 5 shots because it was cooler outside and I was impatient.

10 shot group


20 shot group


30 shot group



This is how I shoot groups, test loads, form brass and get good drop data. Once I’m done, I just switch over to my hunting bipod, do a 10 shot zero and do all my shooting prone from the ground or positional for practice.

You’ll see I have to grab the stock with my left hand when I close the bolt. That just because with this virgin brass and fire forming it has a pretty tight crush fit in the chamber and takes some pretty good effort to close the bolt. And then you’ll see once it’s fired, it pops right up.

 

[Ucsdryder]

Last update before I turn the gun back over to my buddy. He brought his ZCO 420 that he got for the gun yesterday, so I mounted it and bore sighted it last night. I loaded 15 rounds of the 215 Hybrid load. Then was shooting this morning before the sun came up.

100 yards. First 5 shots after bore sight. These hit close enough to center that I didn’t feel like need to dial anywhere. Just shot the group, measured, and made a zero adjustment.
View attachment 735498


I made the rough zero adjustment and just set the zero. My buddy will need to do his own personal zero, based off how he shoots anyways. I went straight to 957 yards to see if drop data was close and that the group held up.
View attachment 735499

I’m done with “development” at this point and just saved the last 5 loaded rounds for him.

Then I still had 30 pieces of brass to form. So I went to forming. This time I shot it in groups of 5 shots because it was cooler outside and I was impatient.

10 shot group
View attachment 735500

20 shot group
View attachment 735504

30 shot group
View attachment 735505


This is how I shoot groups, test loads, form brass and get good drop data. Once I’m done, I just switch over to my hunting bipod, do a 10 shot zero and do all my shooting prone from the ground or positional for practice.

You’ll see I have to grab the stock with my left hand when I close the bolt. That just because with this virgin brass and fire forming it has a pretty tight crush fit in the chamber and takes some pretty good effort to close the bolt. And then you’ll see once it’s fired, it pops right up.

You shoot about 2000% faster than me.

 

[huntnful]

You shoot about 2000% faster than me.

Hahaha you can shoot em faster when you mag feed . But I don’t feel like dropping the mag and loading it every time haha.

 

[huntnful]

I just realized this and found it funny. The best 10 shot and 30 shot groups were shot with a $900 trijicon tenmile. And the worst 10 shot and 30 shot groups were shot with a $3700 ZCO lol.

I love the ZCO glass, but thought it was funny side bar