problems with rucking

[mtwarden]

^ good point. When I was training for my sheep hunt I did the majority of my training on single track trails, BUT a couple of times a week I'd head off trail in rougher country. I did a lot of sidehilling (w/ weight and w/o) on steep ground. This paid big dividends on my hunt and I will continue to do so for my hunts here.

What I couldn't train for (and caught me totally off guard) was the muskeg/tundra- holy hell was that stuff humbling!

 

[justinspicher]

I have been “rucking” for nearly thirty years now, in varied terrain and climates. I have always trained with lighter loads and longer mileage. So far that program has worked well for me. I am just past my mid forties and I have relatively little pain in my back, hips, knees, ankles and feet. Ego is a mother trucker and needs to be kept in check from time to time. Just because you can do something, doesn’t mean you always should. With that, there are always exceptions and you will just have to gut it out and mentally accept that this sucks and go forth.

 

[COJoe]

I have always trained with lighter loads and longer mileage.

What would you consider to be a lighter training load and what mileage do you normally do for a training hike?

 

[rickyw]

I love the break down you gave! once I hit over 120 I have a slight flexion lean and I always use trekking poles to help with balance but because I do have some flexion I could see it irritating the disc but I could also see an application where the tissue gets strong like we see with eccentric loads on tendons but the tissues are different and I am unsure how annular fibers and the nucleus pulposes respond. may I ask what your background is? I am a chiropractor with a sports med background, I don't hear many people use terms like annular fibers, delamination and flexion cycles! ha

I am a chiropractor and athletic trainer (not a personal trainer).
It’s the cyclic loaded flexion over and over that delaminates the disc. A static flexion is different and may or may not be a problem

 

[justinspicher]

What would you consider to be a lighter training load and what mileage do you normally do for a training hike?

I carry a load of 10-15lbs for 3-5 miles for my daily walks through my neighborhood. If I head out for an actual hike it’s probably 15-20lbs and it’s 6-8 miles. I also live in the mountains so that helps.

 

[COJoe]

I carry a load of 10-15lbs for 3-5 miles for my daily walks through my neighborhood. If I head out for an actual hike it’s probably 15-20lbs and it’s 6-8 miles. I also live in the mountains so that helps.

That's helpful for consideration, thank you. I do my training walks from my house on some trails for 3-5.5 miles but have been trying to get up to Beulah Mountain park for some hikes with elevation which is where I see the biggest challenge to my conditioning in more of a real world hunting environment.

 

[justinspicher]

I would suggest taking a different approach to your hunting prep by looking at it from a “long game” perspective. You will most likely spent more time moving and looking for animals that you will actually carrying one out. Training 90% of the time for the 10% work capacity seems backwards and time consuming.

That’s just a thought, take it for what it’s worth. I’m not a professional at anything, just a dude that wanders around in the woods.

 

[Dave0317]

A couple others alluded to something along these lines, but to throw another bit of advice in there, look up Dan John and Mike Prevost.

Dan John recommends starting pretty light and says that for general fitness, there is no reason to go over 30 pounds, and it likely does more harm than good. He does recommended frequent loaded carry work at bodyweight (like, half your bodyweight in a dumbell x each hand farmer carry) and even higher, for a few laps across the gym or maybe up to 100 yards.

Prevost’s rucking material starts out crazy light, works up pretty slow. And has very heavy loads mixed in for 5-10 minute intervals.

So, definitely plenty of experts recommending the vast majority of work volume should be fairly light.

I’m also a Ranger School grad(also took me a couple more months than advertised, lol), and the majority of my training before going was 35-45 pound packs. Even with the daily meat-pack-out-equivalent weights, I adapted pretty well to those loads once I was there.

I don’t know about spinal injuries other than plenty of guys I’ve known in the military being diagnosed with pinched or slipped discs and things like that. Maybe the VA has the data? Might just take some digging.

 

[Coach Chris]

A lot of work with barefoot with balance boards, boss ball and one leg at a time trying to focus on intrinsic muscle fibers. I spend time standing on one leg like a single leg rdl then rotating my spine left and right to create instability. I found a lot of thoughts on rucking but I was looking for double blind research. I mostly found pros and cons of rucking. I have not had any back pain while rucking but I've been doing this for the past 8 years and now that I'm 40 I just started wondering how it may impact me in years to come.

Are you doing heavy (3-5 rep) seated calf raises and Tibialis Anterior raises?

I'm 57. I've been carrying big packs for decades.
I have been specifically rucking for hunting prep for about 13yrs.
I have no back pain.
I have some knee discomfort. I haven't exactly been kind to my body, at all. I can't say that backpacking, hunting or rucking has directly caused that.

 

[Chirogrow]

@Chirogrow what are you using for a pack and what are you carrying to get 150lb on there?

Lately, I have been using a sack of quikcrete and end up with total pack weight around 90lb. I also have a 50lb sandbag that I use more frequently. I don't think I would want to haul them simultaneously though.

With the heavier weight, my focus is on getting through the workout. With the lighter weight, I focus on pushing harder.

I use my exo K4 and barneys pack with 3 50 lb bags I got from cabelas. I use to use concrete bags but got tired of them leaking over time! haha

 

[Chirogrow]

I’ll second that your training to little with too much weight. Add distance and reduce weight. It’s really not much different from lifting weights, if you use inappropriate weights and form you risk injury. It’s almost impossible to get injured with perfect form and I would guess you could be developing bad movement patterns at those weights.

That's what I'm starting to think more about. I have yet to have any injuries but I'm starting to think long term and gradual wear and tear. I do love the mental aspect of a super heavy hike but it just takes one wrong step to create a problem.

 

[Chirogrow]

A couple others alluded to something along these lines, but to throw another bit of advice in there, look up Dan John and Mike Prevost.

Dan John recommends starting pretty light and says that for general fitness, there is no reason to go over 30 pounds, and it likely does more harm than good. He does recommended frequent loaded carry work at bodyweight (like, half your bodyweight in a dumbell x each hand farmer carry) and even higher, for a few laps across the gym or maybe up to 100 yards.

Prevost’s rucking material starts out crazy light, works up pretty slow. And has very heavy loads mixed in for 5-10 minute intervals.

So, definitely plenty of experts recommending the vast majority of work volume should be fairly light.

I’m also a Ranger School grad(also took me a couple more months than advertised, lol), and the majority of my training before going was 35-45 pound packs. Even with the daily meat-pack-out-equivalent weights, I adapted pretty well to those loads once I was there.

I don’t know about spinal injuries other than plenty of guys I’ve known in the military being diagnosed with pinched or slipped discs and things like that. Maybe the VA has the data? Might just take some digging.

great stuff right here! thank you for your input and thank you very for your service!!!

 

[Chirogrow]

Are you doing heavy (3-5 rep) seated calf raises and Tibialis Anterior raises?

I'm 57. I've been carrying big packs for decades.
I have been specifically rucking for hunting prep for about 13yrs.
I have no back pain.
I have some knee discomfort. I haven't exactly been kind to my body, at all. I can't say that backpacking, hunting or rucking has directly caused that.

congrats on still going so strong!! Yes I do a lot of tib anterior, calf raises along with the peroneal work.

 

[Chirogrow]

^ good point. When I was training for my sheep hunt I did the majority of my training on single track trails, BUT a couple of times a week I'd head off trail in rougher country. I did a lot of sidehilling (w/ weight and w/o) on steep ground. This paid big dividends on my hunt and I will continue to do so for my hunts here.

What I couldn't train for (and caught me totally off guard) was the muskeg/tundra- holy hell was that stuff humbling!

after my first trip to alaska it was the tussocks that killed me! How could anyone even train for that!

 

[IBen]

after my first trip to alaska it was the tussocks that killed me! How could anyone even train for that!

Strap two large pieces of foam to your boots and walk on uneven terrain or these:

 

[Patriot2]

There's not a lot of research on carrying a heavy pack and effects on the spine.
As you probably discovered.
Mostly what you find are warnings of uneven loads and spinal alignment/deformation.

What "stability work" are you doing?

You should have at least 80% of the entire weight on the iliac crest of your hips. There is no significant weight on your shoulders if done properly. I put the pack on my back (shoulder straps super loose), sliding it up so the hipbelt centerline is slightly ABOVE top of the iliac crest of each hip, then tighten the heck out of the hip belt. As I stand up, the ENTIRE pack weight is resting on my hips - the shoulders straps are not even touching my shoulders. I then snug the shoulder straps down to just resting on the shoulders (probably only 2-3 lbs of force on each shoulder). Then tighten the sternum strap and other load stabilizer straps. Don't feel bad, I didn't know the proper way to wear a pack for my first 50+ years..............it was a complete game changer. Short story is there is very little spinal load if the pack fits you properly and you wear it properly.

 

[LongWayAround]

Hunt Backcountry Podcast 475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project

Mark is joined by Scott Johnston, author of Training for the Uphill Athlete, owner of Evoke Endurance, and an outdoorsman and athlete with decades of experience. They discuss the physical demands of mountain hunting, what hunters can learn from other athletes, and the best way to train for...

exomtngear.com

Exo recently had a podcast related to this topic. I ordered Scott's book before I finished the episode.

 

[Muddler]

Of course I can't find it right now, but I recall reading/listening to something where the British military determined that 50# in a ruck was on the high end of necessary. Going over that consistently led to more injuries.

 

[zog]

Good topic thanks.

I used to train with a heavy pack, say 60 lb, and purposely load my shoulders with no hip belt. My theory was that when I strapped on the full suspension pack, the real hunt would feel like nothing. That theory definitely worked; the hunt was easier than training, but I ruined my shoulder/clavicle area, whatever that's called, from the repeated over-stress. Bad idea.

But my biggest missing with heavy pack training has already been stated above - so much of the hunt was off trail! Deadfall, side sloping, climbing and descending boulders, scree, mud, etc. I was NOT ready for that!

Then I started training lighter weight, 35-40 lb, good hip belt suspension, and LOTS of unusual stepping, climbing, high-stepping or vaulting with one leg wherever I can find a bench, fence, boulder, tree stump, jungle gym, etc. And lots more core/mobility exercise than ever. Made a big difference on my last hunt. I even kept up with my sons!

 

[zog]

Strap two large pieces of foam to your boots and walk on uneven terrain or these:View attachment 740612

Wow those are wild! Nowadays there's specialty gear for anything you can think of!!