poor choice of hunting outfitter

[trophyhill]

Quick question. Do outfitters and guides operate with impunity without any consequences? Or is it just a high roller crap shoot?

 

[wind gypsy]

From my experience in that area, I'd say it is an uphill battle for guides to get the average client better than 25% odds of opportunity on a legal bull. There just aren't many elk there. Those that routinely kill bulls in the area put in some serious work that I would bet 90% of outfitted clients aren't willing or able to perform. The outfitter tactics probably have to cater to the average client.

The OP's story sounds like a pretty sad effort on the Outfitters part but I do feel for folks that own outfitting businesses up there. It's a beautiful area but the fact is there aren't many elk and killing them consistently can require more physical effort than could be expected of your standard outfitted client. If they were being honest with prospective clients they would basically have to tell them that their odds are worse than almost anywhere else in the state, which is a tough way to attract customers.

The sub 400 inch bull thing may seem far fetched but if you look into it they kill some monsters during archery. I seen at least 1 370ish bull posted this season.

There is nothing far fetched about bulls being less than 400". Anywhere.

 

[trophyhill]

Thanks for the opinion. I don't agree with it, but thanks for giving it.

There are some who may not agree with him, and some who may not agree with you. Now that that is settled, if I were to go on a guided hunt, I’d look for reviews anywhere I could find them. Including Rokslide, AT, Hunt Talk, Bowsite, MM and anywhere else I could find reviews. And not necessarily in that order. I know KHNC has been pretty outspoken on this outfitter and it’s looking like with good reason. I hope more will post negative posts on bad outfitters as well. Especially for those spending the coin and doing their own homework.

I wouldn’t even think of being totally reliant on an outfitters website and pics as proof of anything. Nor the references that THEY provide because I know they’d be 1 sided.

 

[MTguy0341]

As others have said, tough terrain, low elk numbers and thick country. Not the place i would go for my once in a lifetime out of state hunt. Sucks you had a bad experience. It was tough in archery up here this year. Quieter than normal

 

[AaronMColeman]

I'm curious what the wife was told about the hunt? Personally I would have lied my ass off and told her about what an incredible experience it was. She would go to her grave thinking my 50th birthday was the greatest thing that ever happened . And I'd find a clever way to make sure she doesn't plan a surprise hunt with same guys at 60!

 

[Winnie]

I hunted this area in 2016 DIY, public land and it took us a couple of days to get on elk, but we were in elk pretty consistently. We ran across some guides who didn't impress me at all. I have no idea what outfitter they were from, but walking 200 yards down a trail and watching an opening isn't going to get it done in that country. Another guide's attempt at calling left a little to be desired, unless hammering that Hoochie Mama every couple minutes is your way of calling elk. There are elk up there, but it is tough country. Trout Creek has maybe the best pizza I have ever ate. Fantastic!

 

[2ski]

There are some who may not agree with him, and some who may not agree with you. Now that that is settled, if I were to go on a guided hunt, I’d look for reviews anywhere I could find them. Including Rokslide, AT, Hunt Talk, Bowsite, MM and anywhere else I could find reviews. And not necessarily in that order. I know KHNC has been pretty outspoken on this outfitter and it’s looking like with good reason. I hope more will post negative posts on bad outfitters as well. Especially for those spending the coin and doing their own homework.

I wouldn’t even think of being totally reliant on an outfitters website and pics as proof of anything. Nor the references that THEY provide because I know they’d be 1 sided.

I agree with you. I would check those places too. To get information. And anyone that was a first time poster when they posted a negative or glowing positive review I would take with a grain of salt. Overly positive reviews I would assume are the guide. That's me. Plus, Rokslide isn't about guided hunts. So factor in that, with it being a first time poster, and I'm sitting here with a few grains of salt.

Take this. Back in the day, Aron posted about guys without experience posting reviews. Not to do it. Guys that had asked him questions a month earlier were giving advice on the same products they had no experience with. But they had history so he knew that. 5MilesBack and I don't agree politically. But I take note of his reviews of gear because I know he's a bada$$ hunter from his history here. If he went on a guided hunt(he won't) and said the same things I would 100% take note. But a brand new guy gets on and gives a negative review and I take it with a grain of salt. They may be spot on. But until they develop a history on the forum, I take things with a grain of salt. That being said, if you've seen enough reviews to satisfy you, I understand that if it quacks like a duck and all. I haven't heard enough quacks.

 

[2ski]

Andrew, I want to make really clear I'm not discouraging you from posting. Welcome to the forum and post up! My intent on my first post was bringing up that recently we've had a few brand new posters come here to post negative reviews. Keep posting and let us see who you are.

 

[trophyhill]

I agree with you. I would check those places too. To get information. And anyone that was a first time poster when they posted a negative or glowing positive review I would take with a grain of salt. Overly positive reviews I would assume are the guide. That's me. Plus, Rokslide isn't about guided hunts. So factor in that, with it being a first time poster, and I'm sitting here with a few grains of salt.

Take this. Back in the day, Aron posted about guys without experience posting reviews. Not to do it. Guys that had asked him questions a month earlier were giving advice on the same products they had no experience with. But they had history so he knew that. 5MilesBack and I don't agree politically. But I take note of his reviews of gear because I know he's a bada$$ hunter from his history here. If he went on a guided hunt(he won't) and said the same things I would 100% take note. But a brand new guy gets on and gives a negative review and I take it with a grain of salt. They may be spot on. But until they develop a history on the forum, I take things with a grain of salt. That being said, if you've seen enough reviews to satisfy you, I understand that if it quacks like a duck and all. I haven't heard enough quacks.

Mike on a guided hunt? Now that is funny right there. He’d be guiding the guide lol.

 

[Indian Summer]

If there’s any doubt to the caliber of bucks and bulls up there just go into Tobys Bar and look at the pictures. But you’ll also notice that most are old. That area had it’s day but it’s long gone. Generally it’s so thick up there that even it the good old days it was tough. All or nothing in that you either didn’t see an elk or you killed one. I’ve talked to many guys who killed bulls up there and said it was the only elk they saw.

We ysed to go up there after big bulls. They have what we called “Noxon kickers”. Right at the base of the big heavy 4th point they had sticker points sticking out sideways. Wayne Hill has a few on the wall. At one point there were a few legit 400 inchers up on Pillick Ridge. Good luck with that though... just getting up there is a bitch. The grizzlies in the Cabinet were um... a turn off too!

 

[slick]

All the outfitters in this area struggle but all of them kill a sub 400 in bull every year too.

Best thing I’ve seen in awhile.


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[Mudslinger]

Sorry about your hunt.... I've had a couple bad hunts myself. After reading reviews on bowsite the last couple of years, I wouldn't hunt with him if I was given the hunt.

This just goes to show that everyone needs to do their research when booking an outfitter. Although this was a surprise hunt as a gift that would have been very tough to do.

 

[Ross]

pillick Ridge know it well on top at the lookout you want solitude hunt the Nwest corner and see the ecosystem wolves have created with a chance at something impressive and you will go home many pounds lighter and wish you trained harder for your hunt

 

[slick]

Welp I know where I’m headed in R1 next year. Thanks Ross and Indian


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[MesaHorseCo.]

Damn that's a lot of money for such a shit experience. I'd take ya for a 6 pack and a steak

 

[fwafwow]

Damn that's a lot of money for such a shit experience. I'd take ya for a 6 pack and a steak

What’s your preference on beer and cut of steak?

 

[Ross]

They will welcome you with an overwhelming howl

Welp I know where I’m headed in R1 next year. Thanks Ross and Indian


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[Broomd]

Man, what a farked up experience. I'd want my pound of flesh for that 10K pain.

Kudos for a good wife.

 

[Comerade]

Well, I made al living workering for various Outfitter's as a Elk guide, I think I saw a fairly good cross section of Elk hunt camps, successes and failures.
Hiring an outfitter is risky, guides float around a bit, many are not even serious hunters or good rodeo cowboys because they migrate between the two.
I have been cheated by a few outfitter's that didn't pay up, or pay anybody.
When you do find an Outfitter that works for you, cherish it....nothing like a 10 day horseback hunt, with experienced people to make a guy a happy camper. Good luck

 

[KHNC]

Cody Carr Hunting Adventures (CCHA)
This hunt was a gift from my wife for my 50 th Birthday. It was supposed to be a trip of a lifetime for me
(whether or not I harvested an Elk, I was looking forward to an amazing experience). The reality could
not have been further from this. My wife arranged for my best friend to join me on this hunt; all in all, it
cost us over $10,000 each (including all incidentals, with $6125 going to CCHA). While harvesting an Elk
would have been the best experience ever, understanding that there are no guarantees, we were at
least expecting to have a positive experience (especially after all of the $$$ we invested in this trip).
Putting the Elk aside, we had such a bad experience with this outfitter that we wanted to make sure no
one ever experiences what we experienced with CCHA, and never spends a wasted dime with CCHA. To
keep it as short as possible, I’ll provide the following:
-An employee from CCHA called us multiple times in the months leading up to our trip to hard-sell their
gear store (online at first). Even after explaining that we are both experienced lifelong hunters/archers,
have hunted Elk before in various environments, and have plenty of camping/survival/first aid gear and
training, as well as the gear to go with it, he continued the hard sell. Once we arrived, we were taken to
their brick and mortar store to continue the hard-sell in person about how we NEEDED a bunch of gear.
-A few days prior to our arrival, at Cody Carr’s recommendation and hard push, I purchased an over the
counter bear tag due to his claim that they’d been having a “high volume” of bear sightings (we saw
absolutely NO bears, sign or indication that there were any bears to be seen or found).
-After we finally arrived at the lodge, Cody advised us that we would be going with his best guide to a
new PRIVATE 18,000 acre land lease in Missoula that was ready to hunt. There was nothing “PRIVATE”
about this location, nor was it ready to hunt. Nothing could have been further from the truth.
Myself, my buddy, our guide and guide assistant took the 2-hour trip after hunting some public
land the first morning. That first hunt consisted of driving up a logging road at dawn, making
several calls and a short hike in the area of the truck, then spending 3 hours driving logging roads
looking for bear and elk. Once at the new “private-property,” the assistant guide and another
helper were supposed to set up camp while we took a side-by-side to hunt. We cruised around
and glassed all afternoon not seeing a single animal. While doing this and speaking with our
guide, it became abundantly clear that this property had NOT been scouted and other than a few
rides through with a side-by-side, no one had any idea where the activity was. When we got back
to camp, we still had some set up to do, because one of the guide assistants had forgotten some
key items for the tent setup. We ended up setting up camp with the guides and eventually had to
run to town another day to purchase the missing items, which cost us additional loss of hunting
time. So, for the next 4 days we stuck it out with our poor guides, attempting to narrow down this
18,000- acre plot and where the activity was. Add to this, that we had to move CCHA’s wall tent
two more times because we determined that there was way more public pressure then described
by Cody. Had we left the tent in the original location, it would have resulted in our gear being
stolen or damaged. Additionally, we left a trailer parked on the road (for the side-by-side) and
the locals called the game wardens on CCHA. When this happened, Cody called his guide,

interrupting our hunt to find out what we did?!?! It was because the locals were pissed that
CCHA’s trailer and side-by-side were there. What should have happened was Cody calling the
game warden directly and not his guides, interrupting our hunt. Although the property is
“private,” the owner allows day-use which includes hunting, fishing, mountain biking, hiking,
and dog walking. So all-in-all the first four days of our hunt consisted of about 4 actual hours
hunting in the woods, with our bows in hand. The rest of our time was spent setting up CCHA’s
tent (to be used for the rest of season) and scouting the property. We saw tons of side-by-side
traffic, mountain bikers, dog walkers and lots of hunters on this “exclusive” private property.
-Once back at the lodge, we discovered that out of 11 hunters there that NOONE had even seen
an elk, forget taking a shot on one. This remained true for the entire week. In fact, a few hunters
had left their trip early, accepting the financial loss rather than stay to completion, because their
experience was so horrible. We also discovered that out of 10 CCHA hunters the week before, all
failed to harvest an elk as well.
-On day 7, we discovered an awesome tree stand that was placed by a CCHA guide, and hidden
from other guides. This was just more evidence of total mismanagement by this outfitter.
-We discovered that the local elk population (per Cody Carr’s testimony) has been decimated by
wolves. So much so that any reputable outfitter cannot, in good faith, sustain any elk hunting
opportunity in this area. In fact, the locals go elsewhere because the elk population in this area
has been so negatively affected. We tried speaking to Cody’s father while we were there (since
Cody himself was away hunting), to express our frustrations at our experience. The only
response we received was, “I guess you have to hunt harder,” and our concerns were completely
dismissed.
-It was brought to our attention that even the guides were frustrated, because they were sick of
having hopeful hunters arrive week after week, knowing that there was no chance of them
harvesting a kill.
-We did reach out to Cody Carr in an effort to give him a chance to address what we felt was a
completely unacceptable experience. We basically worked for CCHA for 4 days, setting up camp
that would be used the rest of the season; we scouted his 18,000 acres of unscouted “private”
property; we went back to town to gather needed supplies when his guides failed to do it, etc.
Cody Carr falsely represented the property and options available for a fair hunting experience.
We also discovered that Cody Carr had previously offered prior customers with similar reviews a
full refund, in order to have their reviews removed from public forums. Cody Carr is completely
aware of what he does NOT offer, and makes a conscious effort to manipulate information
available about his outfit, and makes concerted efforts to remove any negative critiques about his
outfit in order to continue fooling unknowing customers into investing hard earned money into
an experience he cannot provide.
-After going back and forth with Cody via email and phone (following our trip), he FINALLY
offered what he thought were reasonable options for compensation, none of which would result
in any true monetary sacrifice from him or his outfit, but would only result in additional cost to

us. He offered: 1) For us to come back this year during rifle season (we are archery hunters; and
the additional noise from rifles would only lessen an already non-existent presence of elk in the
area), 2) For us to come back for a bear hunt in the spring (again, we saw NO evidence of bear in
the area; and how would that address the fact that we were there for Elk), 3) that we return next
season for another elk hunt (there is no evidence that there is a sustainable elk population in that
area, that would make another trip worth it; also this, again, would lead to additional costs to us-
for ex: airfare, hunting permit, etc)., or 4) $1000 (which was about 1-day’s worth of hunting).
On our last night we finally had the opportunity to speak with Cody (after having been rudely
“dismissed” by his father). We expressed our frustrations; and quite frankly, he didn’t argue with
much of what we said. In fact, he supported our findings. That was the time to “make things
right,” but he didn’t even make an effort. Offering options that add more cost to the customer, or
simply can’t be supported by available resources (such as the current elk population) are not how
a reputable outfitter does right by their customers. While we will count our experience with
CCHA as a very expensive loss, we just want to make sure that no one else wastes $$$ on such a
negative experience. Take your money and your time elsewhere for a fair shot at a positive
experience (regardless of a kill).

HOleeee Sheet! i Cant believe this asshole is still ripping people off. DId you research this POS at all before you booked? He is a lying sack of shit.