Point/Insert Weight Questions

[coohio1854]

Ok so I am new to this whole arrow tuning. Convert from the big box special of buying arrows off the shelf with a 12 grain insert cut half inch in front of the riser. Shot that way for years.

Since becoming more educated I am playing around with point and insert weights.

The question I have is what are the pros/cons of let’s say for easy math 150gr up front. Is it better to go with a 125gr broadhead and 25gr insert or a 100gr broad head and 50gr insert?

This question could obviously apply to any weight combination. I am wondering if there is a difference? Like if you put a 150gr head on a 12gr insert is the arrows structural integrity compromised? Should there be a certain ratio you are trying to stay close to with point and insert weight?

I know that with the 4mm-5mm arrows inserts become a lot more important. Right now I have Easton 5mm FMJ’s and BE Carnivores. I am trying to keep them both between 475-500. The FMJ’s only have the standard 16gr insert. I have been playing around with 100-150 gr field points which brought me to this question. I saw collars on Ethics that would add an extra 35gr and maybe some integrity to the arrow.

Thanks in advance!


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[Billy Goat]

Heavier broadheads are typically a stronger broadhead, but that's not always the case.


Weighted inserts can be more durable than standard aluminum, especially if going SS route, I have bent a fair amount of brass. If using a .204 shaft the heavier hit inserts are longer, that effectively shortens your shaft.


It's a balancing act. You want both to be durable, but for most applications a standard hit insert and a decent 100 GR head is all you need.

Start shooting buffalo, and cinder blocks you need more.

 

[NCSU_Lewis]

My thought process was to use a heavier insert (Ethics aluminum insert/ stainless collar) and a 100gr head. This was mostly due to availability of broadheads. Lot easier to find 100-125 gr options readily available (similar to stock ammo in 308 or 270 vs an odd caliber maybe?). But if you are targeting a certain weight set up but want a big beefy COC head you may need a lighter insert.

 

[Dennis]

Arrow flight and structural integrity are both important. You are on the right track and might consider talking with Ethics directly about your set up to get you to the right foundation. I have found that I should first focus on spine testing my arrows with bare shafts and using the Ethics field tip test kit. You might also consider using their arrow shaft test kit. Using their field tip test kit with weights every 25 grains from 100 to 200 or 300 grains. Basically you are looking to match tip weight to arrow spine along with your goal weight of 475-500 grains. Then you will know what works best with you shooting the set up. Once you know the answer to those questions you will know what spine and shaft works best with what tip weight. Then you can figure out how to achieve the tip weight that works best for your setup. Heavier broadheads are typically stronger, but that is not always true. If the conclusion from testing is to get to your goal weight of 475 to 500 grains means you need arrow spine of ??? and the total tip weight of ??? your set. Then just find the combination of head weight and insert weight that to get you to the total tip weight you desire. Good luck

 

[coohio1854]

Thanks for the responses! Ideally targeting 150-175 total weight up front. 470-500ish total arrow weight. My friend went all in on the GrizzlyStik. He’s shooting 74lbs/27.5 680gr. 200gr broadhead with 100gr insert. As far as I know he’s had no issues tuning. He’s killed 2 deer so far this season. Complete pass. I don’t want to go that extreme but I do want to beef up from the 100gr head and 16gr insert while maintaining good speed. I have been looking at Iron Will wide 125’s and the various grizzlystik 125’s.

Any other solid cut on contact reusable broadhead recommendations?

Right now I’m tuning 100gr steel force broadheads and 125gr grim reaper hybrids but would prefer 125 CoC. This is all for next season so I have plenty of time.


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[coohio1854]

Arrow flight and structural integrity are both important. You are on the right track and might consider talking with Ethics directly about your set up to get you to the right foundation. I have found that I should first focus on spine testing my arrows with bare shafts and using the Ethics field tip test kit. You might also consider using their arrow shaft test kit. Using their field tip test kit with weights every 25 grains from 100 to 200 or 300 grains. Basically you are looking to match tip weight to arrow spine along with your goal weight of 475-500 grains. Then you will know what works best with you shooting the set up. Once you know the answer to those questions you will know what spine and shaft works best with what tip weight. Then you can figure out how to achieve the tip weight that works best for your setup. Heavier broadheads are typically stronger, but that is not always true. If the conclusion from testing is to get to your goal weight of 475 to 500 grains means you need arrow spine of ??? and the total tip weight of ??? your set. Then just find the combination of head weight and insert weight that to get you to the total tip weight you desire. Good luck

Thank you! This is perfect. I was stuck on buying test packs of arrows but using these is a much cheaper option haha! I briefly looked at them but was more concentrated on inserts so I completely overlooked them.


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[Samdemarais]

If I was building arrows right now I would probably go with 25 grain steel insert and 150 grain head on a black eagle Spartan. Easy, tight tolerances and tough.

 

[N2TRKYS]

I bought the heavier field point pack last summer. Once I got to the weight/speed combo that I liked, I built my arrows to that weight. One of the arrows I used was BE Carnivore. The other was Gold Tip Hunter XT.

If the broadhead extra weight doesn’t translate into thicker blades and strength, then to me, it doesn’t matter where the weight comes from(broadhead or insert).

 

[OR Archer]

I personally prefer a 50gr insert with a 100gr head. This offers you a lot of choices when selecting broadheads. Even if you chose a 125gr head with the 50gr insert it leaves a lot of options for broadhead selection based on the game you’re hunting.

 

[5MilesBack]

If I was building arrows right now I would probably go with 25 grain steel insert and 150 grain head on a black eagle Spartan. Easy, tight tolerances and tough.

I tried some Spartan's........they're not very tough.

 

[cburgin72]

I have 150 grains up front. I did this with 25 grains made up of insert and collar (both iron will) and 125 grains of broadhead. I feel like its a great combo for me but I haven't tested it out on any game yet. Hopefully soon!

 

[4fletch]

Ok so I am new to this whole arrow tuning. Convert from the big box special of buying arrows off the shelf with a 12 grain insert cut half inch in front of the riser. Shot that way for years.

Since becoming more educated I am playing around with point and insert weights.

The question I have is what are the pros/cons of let’s say for easy math 150gr up front. Is it better to go with a 125gr broadhead and 25gr insert or a 100gr broad head and 50gr insert?

This question could obviously apply to any weight combination. I am wondering if there is a difference? Like if you put a 150gr head on a 12gr insert is the arrows structural integrity compromised? Should there be a certain ratio you are trying to stay close to with point and insert weight?

I know that with the 4mm-5mm arrows inserts become a lot more important. Right now I have Easton 5mm FMJ’s and BE Carnivores. I am trying to keep them both between 475-500. The FMJ’s only have the standard 16gr insert. I have been playing around with 100-150 gr field points which brought me to this question. I saw collars on Ethics that would add an extra 35gr and maybe some integrity to the arrow.

Thanks in advance!


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All three arrows are 530g total weight. One has the little aluminum Easton insert and a 125g head. One has a 75g ss half out and a 100g head. The third has the little aluminum insert and 150g head with a lock washer and plastic gasket. As far as where they hit out to 40 or 50 there is no difference. As far as integrity, i busted an fmj through a cutting board edge on and the nock blew apart. It was bent in the middle but the head and insert was fine. I put a 5mm ss half out through the leg of a target deer and it bent. I personally would use a half out on carbon be it aluminum or steel, but watching my buddy miss and blow arrows up on the stone wall i doubt it makes much of a difference unless you get to extremes with those large outserts with big sleeves.

 

[Mighty Mouse]

More head weight gives more material to work with, which could be used to (though not guaranteed to) make the head stronger and/or increase its cutting diameter.

Insert choice becomes more critical as arrow diameter decreases. For standard diameter arrows (6.5mm/.244-.246"), I prefer a lightweight (12-15 gr) aluminum insert threaded all the way through so I can add weight screws to adjust total front weight. For small (5mm/.204") or micro (4mm/.166") diameter arrows, I'd be looking at stronger/heavier options. HIT's would be my choice for small/micro arrows, although micro HIT's force you to use heads with 6-40 ("Deep Six") threads instead of typical 8-32 threads (which is one reason I avoid micro diameter arrows altogether).

As mentioned above, a field point test kit is a good tool for experimenting with different weights before you commit to building an entire batch of arrows, as are Gold Tip FACT weights. I use heat reversible glue ("hot melt") instead of permanent adhesive to secure my inserts so I can easily remove them if I decide I want to try something else. Every arrow manufacturer warns against using hot melt with carbon shafts, but it can be done safely if done carefully.

 

[Dennis]

I have been shooting Grizzly Stik Maasai broadheads this year with good results. I think their sharpness and the quality of steel does make a difference in edge retention. I shoot 200 grain heads, but they make lighter heads you might want to try.