Plastic/double boots

[ColeyG]

I agree, the Wiggy's are essentially a one time use item. They get a hunter by for a short period of time, but inevitably they get holes and are useless. The glacier socks on the other hand, I can get 2-3 seasons out of a pair, and I use them a lot. The ability to use glacier socks are one huge advantage of the plastic boots. When you have to cross a creek 10-15 times in the course of a mile or two, or essentially be in the creek the whole time you work up a drainage, everything is inferior to using glacier socks with plastic boots. Now, I did have a buddy hike two miles up a creek with crocs and glacier socks one time, but that didn't look like much fun and was probably a sprained ankle waiting to happen.

Anyway, I think I'll check out these new double boots you guys are referring to and see if they can match the advantages I find with wearing plastic double boots. For me anyway, I need an extremely stiff boot in the ankles. A plastic boot makes it virtually impossible to "roll" your ankle, not the case with leather boots I have tried such as, crispis, lowas's, kennetreks, etc. The durability is another advantage. Depending where a guy hunts, I've seen leather boots toasted after one hunt. Along with the aforementioned ability to use glacier socks, there are some advantages that I don't think any other boot system can match, but I digress.

I need a ton of ankle support as well having blown out all tendons and ligaments in one of my ankles playing sports as a young lad. I have zero lateral support on my left and I I look at it crooked it rolls. This is the primary reason I use mountaineering boots for sheep hunting when a more moderate hiking boot would work for most of the terrain.

Footwear Philosophy for Mountain Hunting, By Coley Gentzel - Journal of Mountain Hunting

If there is a more commonly debated and frequently agonized category of equipment in the realm of mountain hunting I don’t know what it is. In every pre-trip planning process, ...

journalofmountainhunting.com

I find the ankle support and fit much better in single mountaineering boots than double, even more so than old plastics where there is a lot of play in the plush liner. I just replaced my 2nd pair of Sportiva Trango Cubes with their new Aequilibrium ST and so far I am very impressed. It is a fantastic sheep boot. An awesome combination of light and comfortable on the flats and stiff/supportive with great traction on the steeps. The synthetic materials that these boots are made out of dry much more quickly than leather. I can't think of a sheep trip I've had where, even after a full soaking, my boots have remained wet to the point I'd consider that problematic for more than a day. I do tend to take more socks than most, usually one pair for every 2-3 day in the field.

Good to know on the Glacier Socks. Glad you get some good mileage out of them. I've definitely torn up a few toenails and banged some ankles logging river rock miles in my crocs. Since I usually have these along as camp shoes anyhow, I am too lazy/weak to carry something else just for dealing with water crossings.

 

[Snyd]

Lowa Civettas are great if they fit your feet like any other boot. I've killed a few rams and packed out a few more in them. Not one blister in 100's of miles of mountain hunting. I put a plastic sack or oven bag between the liner and shell. Always have dry feet. Glacier socks when needed like mentioned above. Every partner I've hunted with over the years wearing leather boots always nursed their feet from blisters and ended up with wet feet at some point. Any ankle support a leather boot gives you disappears after being wet for a few days.

Whoever said they are no good for sheep hunting doesn't have a clue. Heavy packs, steep rocky terrain they are the bomb. You can edge in with them and the lateral support you get cannot be had with leather boots. Plus the protection from the hard shell cannot be matched by leather. I've also worn them on Kodiak deer and goat hunting.

I suppose if you are on a guided hunt and the guide does most of the heavy lifting and you have a heated base camp cabin to go back to and dry out by the wood stove after a couple days in a spike camp it might be different. But on a 7-12 day DIY walk-in hunt boots are the most important part of the equation.

Draw backs? Flat hard ground trekking they are a little "clunky". Can slow you down a little. Worth the trade off for when you get up in sheep country.

 

[ColeyG]

Whoever said they are no good for sheep hunting doesn't have a clue. Heavy packs, steep rocky terrain they are the bomb.

It isn't that they are no good, it is that there are better options out there.

The choice isn't plastic double boot vs. single leather. A wide range of synthetic and hybrid options exist depending on your intended application.

It is obvious that the old-schoolers who have been using plastics for years are unlikely to change their minds and I get that. To each their own. I am a creature of habit as well and when I find something that works well for me, I tend to stick with it for a while, sometimes to a detriment as technology and innovation march forward.

A pipe wrench makes a pretty good hammer, but why not use a tool designed for that job.

Steep, rocky terrain is a perfect example of why plastics aren't a great choice for sheep country. Their large, clunky profile, sloppy fit, and heavily lugged flat sole, which again is designed for walking on snow, are terrible for anything approaching technical rock when compared to boots that are actually designed for mixed terrain.

Add these considerations to the fact that getting to sheep country usually involves a lot of long, low angle miles aka flat hard ground trekking, and it becomes really hard for me to see any upside of these boots for mountain hunting that doesn't involve very cold temperatures or extended periods of time walking on snow and/or glaciers.

The hard shell does a good job of protecting your feet from getting bashed by talus and loose rocks, true, but with a lighter, more agile boot, I find it a lot less likely that my feet need this kind of protection and I am able to place them more precisely and slips, trips and falls are less likely as a result.

The weight of double plastics is another massive drawback when it comes to distance and elevation gain. Most plastics weight in at 5-5.5lbs per pair. My sheep boots weight 2.75lbs for the pair. That is over a pound per foot that really adds up over 100 miles in sheep country. No thank you!

 

[Snyd]

The Lowa Civettas (green ones) are svelt and lighter. Nothing like the Scarpas, Koflachs, etc. The Lowa Extremes (red ones or black for UK Military) have a different liner more of a winter liner for warmth. Same shell though. The Koflachs for me had a narrow toe and wide heel. Civetta shells fit my feet perfect. Fit is everything as we know. Drawback- The bellows don't go to the top of the boot and water can get in which is why I put a plastic bag over the liner before I put it in the boot.

Just pointing out that these are a great option for a Sheep Hunter for a plastic boot that is not the typical fat, clunky, overly stiff upper plastic boot like ones mentioned in this thread. Upper cuff is very flexible. Loosening it makes for plenty easy trekking on flat ground. Liners have a rubber bottom making them like a moccasin for a camp shoe.

Gotta add some pics cuz it's a Sheep Hunting forum, the dead of winter and I'm bored!!

 

[ColeyG]

The Civettas, much like the Alpha Ice boot, are definitely lower profile and less blocky.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

My oldest just bought the Scarpa Phantom Techs. They’re coming out with a new model, so they’re 40% off. Super light and very comfortable “hybrid” boot.
He’ll ice climb, snowshoe and late season hunt in them. We’re the same size, so I’ll test drive them as well.
I think they run smaller than other Scarpas. We went a half size bigger than all our other Scarpas. We both have narrow feet and these fit narrow. They’re still $500 though…

 

[Andyram_18]

I need a ton of ankle support as well having blown out all tendons and ligaments in one of my ankles playing sports as a young lad. I have zero lateral support on my left and I I look at it crooked it rolls. This is the primary reason I use mountaineering boots for sheep hunting when a more moderate hiking boot would work for most of the terrain.

Footwear Philosophy for Mountain Hunting, By Coley Gentzel - Journal of Mountain Hunting

If there is a more commonly debated and frequently agonized category of equipment in the realm of mountain hunting I don’t know what it is. In every pre-trip planning process, ...

journalofmountainhunting.com

I find the ankle support and fit much better in single mountaineering boots than double, even more so than old plastics where there is a lot of play in the plush liner. I just replaced my 2nd pair of Sportiva Trango Cubes with their new Aequilibrium ST and so far I am very impressed. It is a fantastic sheep boot. An awesome combination of light and comfortable on the flats and stiff/supportive with great traction on the steeps. The synthetic materials that these boots are made out of dry much more quickly than leather. I can't think of a sheep trip I've had where, even after a full soaking, my boots have remained wet to the point I'd consider that problematic for more than a day. I do tend to take more socks than most, usually one pair for every 2-3 day in the field.

Good to know on the Glacier Socks. Glad you get some good mileage out of them. I've definitely torn up a few toenails and banged some ankles logging river rock miles in my crocs. Since I usually have these along as camp shoes anyhow, I am too lazy/weak to carry something else just for dealing with water crossings.

Hey Man, Curious on your Aequilibrium's; im looking for something a bit more technical for some of the areas im shed hunting and Deer hunting. I do use them to cross some flat country to get up in to cliffy stuff. I experience a lot of foot fatigue and typically wear a 2-3 flex boot. i have 2 Questions for you: 1) Hows the durability of these? 2) You mention they do good in flats, would you still echo that same sentiment at this point? or Do they feel like 2 x 4's?

 

[TaperPin]

I must have missed this thread when it first came out - it’s interesting.

On paper it seemed double boots would make sense for all sorts of things, but popularity must have something to do with a person’s stride while walking. I tried a couple different boots and could never get used to zero flex in the sole.

 

[ColeyG]

Hey Man, Curious on your Aequilibrium's; im looking for something a bit more technical for some of the areas im shed hunting and Deer hunting. I do use them to cross some flat country to get up in to cliffy stuff. I experience a lot of foot fatigue and typically wear a 2-3 flex boot. i have 2 Questions for you: 1) Hows the durability of these? 2) You mention they do good in flats, would you still echo that same sentiment at this point? or Do they feel like 2 x 4's?

I can't speak to the durability question as I only have a few short trips on them and about 45-50 miles. Based on the many other pairs of Sportivas that I have used extensively, I don't see any design features or materials that would cause me to have concern about premature failure or lack of durability. Quite the opposite.

Being a tab lighter than their predecessors, the Trango Cubes, these feel closer to ballerina slippers than 2x4s. Stiffness is one factor that affects how a boot feels on lower angle terrain. Rocker and the shape of the sole are others. The main reason I have and continue to go with this style of boot for sheep hunting is that in my experience, they are the best balance between being comfortable enough for long, low angle approaches and stiff enough with adequate support for the high angle terrain.

 

[ColeyG]

I must have missed this thread when it first came out - it’s interesting.

On paper it seemed double boots would make sense for all sorts of things, but popularity must have something to do with a person’s stride while walking. I tried a couple different boots and could never get used to zero flex in the sole.

On paper, plastic double boots are designed with one primary purpose, walking on snow. When used for things other than that, they feel like crap.

 

[Mcnasty]

Hey Man, Curious on your Aequilibrium's; im looking for something a bit more technical for some of the areas im shed hunting and Deer hunting. I do use them to cross some flat country to get up in to cliffy stuff. I experience a lot of foot fatigue and typically wear a 2-3 flex boot. i have 2 Questions for you: 1) Hows the durability of these? 2) You mention they do good in flats, would you still echo that same sentiment at this point? or Do they feel like 2 x 4's?

@Andyram_18 I love my Aequilibriums. Hunted them all last year including a CO sheep hunt mostly between 10 and 13K feet with very steep off trail mixed snow and loose scree terrain. They walk great they climb great, they are light (in comparison to other boots in the category) best boot I have owned all day long. WRT to stiffness not sure on the 2-4 scale but they are slightly less stiff than the Scarpa Ribells and Crispi Colorado gen 1s but not much. That said they perform much better than the scarpas an everything I have used them on. The way they hold my heal it way les sloppy that other boots I have owned. The sole is stiff but some how it is not as hard on the feet from impact and they don't feel like a plank is between the tread and the insole that is typical in the mid weigh mountaineering boots in this category. WRT to durability with pretty heavy use (I wear them all the time not just hunting) they were in great shape. Full disclosure I did have an eyelet pull out on the first pair after about a year but I think that was a one off and it was just the grommet so I was able to field repair it with a 550 loop. I got another pair without question have had those a few months. Fit is the same. Hope that helps

 

[Mcnasty]

Since no one has said this, one thing to consider with old plastic boots especially used ones is that the plastic degrades over time. I have a very old pair of Koflaks (20 + years) that fit my skis for winter use and they are great I have had no issues with them. That said I have personally seen old pairs of both Scarpas and Koflak plastics crack and have the eyelets break out in the cold while climbing.

 

[Andyram_18]

I can't speak to the durability question as I only have a few short trips on them and about 45-50 miles. Based on the many other pairs of Sportivas that I have used extensively, I don't see any design features or materials that would cause me to have concern about premature failure or lack of durability. Quite the opposite.

Being a tab lighter than their predecessors, the Trango Cubes, these feel closer to ballerina slippers than 2x4s. Stiffness is one factor that affects how a boot feels on lower angle terrain. Rocker and the shape of the sole are others. The main reason I have and continue to go with this style of boot for sheep hunting is that in my experience, they are the best balance between being comfortable enough for long, low angle approaches and stiff enough with adequate support for the high angle terrain.

That is an encouraging review. I do understand that not every boot is for every person! Im looking for a boot that works for "Low angle approaches", but can double in high country. I hunt areas that have Lower desert terrain but then quickly jump up to country where you do lots of side hilling. I do get nervous when I hear someone label a boot "a sheep" Boot. Having never been sheep hunting; I failed to think that you would still encounter plenty of flat; and a mix. So having said that; it seems like this boot could be one that mixes between flat, more gradual country and steep country where you need the added stiffness to sidehill and ascend?

 

[CFMT]

I wanted to circle back around to this thread and add some more input. I was able to find A Pair of NIB Scarpa Omega plastic boots. I’ve been able to spend enough time in them to decide that they do check the box in many areas for me. They are fine in snow but I have not found them to be overly clunky or bad for technical, Rocky terrain. I’m fact, I was quite happy with these boots, I have not had a boot be able to support as well as these. Ripping up the trail definitely does not walk like a regular boot may, but I found letting the laces out around the ankle seems to help some. I do find my ankles to have gotten a little sore if leaning against the cuff on steep ascents/decents, but nothing unbearable. So far, inching closer to the right boot for me.

I also was able to spend short periods in the Scarpa phantom 6000 and the La Sportiva G Tech. The g tech in a single boot but is one of the best feeling boots I’ve ever put my feet into. It’s crazy light and seems to be sufficiently warm for most anything I will do, without being overbearing. I am still skeptical of the BOA lace system and not sure if they are field serviceable. These may be a new contender for me. The Phantom 6000 were also a very comfortable boot, but I found them to be quite large and much more insulation than I would be looking for until the depths of winter. The La Sportiva G Summit has been recalled for a stitching problem but I’m hoping they’re available to check out before this fall. If they feel very similar to the G techs and aren’t quite as burly as the phantom 6000, they may be exactly what I’m looking for.

 

[ColeyG]

Ripping up the trail definitely does not walk like a regular boot may, but I found letting the laces out around the ankle seems to help some. I do find my ankles to have gotten a little sore if leaning against the cuff on steep ascents/decents, but nothing unbearable.

If you are having issues like these on day hikes, the problems will be amplified tenfold on a multiday trips covering a lot more miles and elevation gain and loss. Shin bang and blistered heels from slippage can be debilitating and usually don't show up until you are a long way from the trailhead.

I'd be very cautious about committing to a fit that feels anything less than perfect when choosing mountain boots.

 

[cbeard64]

“Sheep hunting” can take in a lot of different conditions depending on a lot of factors. I have been perfectly happy with my Kenetrek Hardscrabbles on several sheep hunts.

I have never encountered conditions where I believe the trade-offs required to use a mountaineering boot would come anywhere close to being worth using them.

I am sure there are hunts where the trade-offs would be worth it, but I think those hunts would be limited to those where lots of time is spent traversing extremely vertical terrain.