Plastic/double boots

[CFMT]

The market for plastics seems to have gone away. The Scarpa Invernos are all I find for a new production plastic. I see a website for Koflach but no retailers.

Arc’teryx offers the Acrux and La Sportiva is set to release the G summit. These were the two that were suggested to me for a double boot. To those that still run doubles, what are you using? I have one pair of old Koflachs that I have stashed away.

And to add, if you have a set of older Scarpa/Koflach/Asolo. What have you gone to for Liners? I am aware of the intuition liners, I have heard of Palau but do not know much of their product line.

I hope this is not out of place. I thought to put this in the footwear section, but I figured the sheep guys would be the most likely to be using these boots.

Thanks

 

[ColeyG]

Plastic double boots are old technology in the mountaineering world, and never really should have had a place in the sheep hunting world, in my opinion.

Plastic boots, generally speaking, were created for walking on snow for long periods of time. Most sheep hunts, dare I say all, don’t require that much walking on snow. I touch snow very rarely on my sheep hunts and I get higher and deeper than most.

A lightweight pair of synthetic alpine climbing boots will serve you much better than trying to breath some life back into an old pair of plastic boots, for sheep hunting anyhow.

Plastic boots and components are becoming harder to find for a reason…obsolescence, primarily.

 

[adventure907]

Whenever I come across a pair of good used plastic boots in my size, I buy them. They are out there, you just have to be patient and jump when you come across a deal.

I wear them, and respectfully disagree that they are obsolete. In fact, I moose hunt in them, caribou hunt in them, deer hunt in them, etc. They have advantages that can't be matched by any other style of boot on the market.

As for liners, I've been happy with the intuition liners I picked up at AMH. They aren't cheap, but I can get two to three years on a set of liners.

Good luck in your search. If you are looking for a particular boot and size, send me a message and I'll keep my eyes open for you.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

I have a few pairs of koflachs I use for snow mobiling.

 

[wyosteve]

I have a pair that I'll have to check the brand. Never wore them. Will post specifics once I check them.

 

[justinspicher]

I started using a set of Scarpas a few years ago because I couldn’t keep my feet warm enough in the later part of winter. I was told that I wouldn’t be able to do much with them.

Mine have the original liner that came with them. I am a huge fan of these boots and have used them extensively during the winters, mostly for snowshoeing.

 

[wyosteve]

OK, poor memory, I checked and the ones I have are Scarpa Manta's, size 12, brand new/never worn. I've had them about 10 years, so don't know if they're the newest version. Will list in classifieds if anyone's interested.

 

[CFMT]

I am drawn to a double mostly for the ability to dry the liners in my bag overnight. I inevitably run into moisture issues on longer hunts. I admittedly haven’t ran a heavier synthetic for later season or harsher climates, but my leathers eventually get to a point where between outside moisture and sweating them out from the inside, they stay more damp than I would care for. Then they freeze and I’m not happy. I also haven’t quite found a leather treatment that I was completely happy with in performance, and when applying heavier treats I worry about it sticking to the threads and bringing in more dirt/dust and lowering the lifetime of the boot. I am probably being a bit nit picky here, however.

I would think that a plastic would last a good bit longer in the rocks and scree.

 

[thinhorn_AK]

Plastic boots were the thing 20 years ago. When I lived in Colorado back then everybody had them, ski lift operators had them and anybody who was into ice climbing or mountaineering had them. I used a pair of koflachs to summit El Pico de Orizaba back on Christmas Day of 2002.

Back then the bright green scarpas were the top of the line, then they made them yellow at some point. Those were called the arctis expeditions.

Asolo may still make a pair, scarpa probably still makes them. I’d look on eBay and see what you can find. A few years ago I was in a second hand shop in Leadville Colorado and they had racks of used plastic boots. At one point I used a pair of kodlach vivo soft boots to climb stairway to heaven near silverton Colorado.

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

@CFMT - You describe late season MT (as well as some other places) to a T.

There are 2 potential avenues to explore if you don’t have an external heating/drying source and you want removable liners (and they are VERY different). Plastic boots like the Scarpa Phantom 6000… or a pac boot like Schnees. Elk or mule deer in November can get down to -10 to -25. You have snowshoeing, snowmobiling, ice fishing, mountaineering, etc. So a boot built for extremely cold temperatures could be used for decades.

Unless you qualify for a Scarpa pro deal that will save you 30-40%, dumping a grand is an investment. Depending on your age and assuming you don’t get them too close to the warming fire, they would last a long, long time though. Schnees aren’t cheap either and they hold up excellent over time as well. The difference between prancing around in a plastic vs. pac boot is obvious and huge.

A 4 season mountaineering boot built for bitter cold conditions is another option, but you will deal with the challenge you mentioned above.

Check out the Phantom as well as Schnees.

PHANTOM 6000 HD

Made for peaks up to 6000m, the SCARPA Phantom 6000 offers eco-friendly materials, waterproof protection, and warmth in the harshest conditions.

us.scarpa.com

 

[ColeyG]

If you are attracted by the idea of a double boot, the Phantoms mentioned above as well as Sportiva’s G2 and Spantik are far superior to plastics for fit and function in mountainous terrain. The liners are top shelf and no need to upgrade to an Intuition in either case.

I live and worked in plastic boots for years and hope my feet never touch them again.

Scarpa Invernos are notorious for shin bang so be wary should anyone wind up considering a pair of those.

The Scarpa Alpha Ice boots were actually a pretty darn good plastic boot. Much more streamlined and technical than the Degre, Expe, etc. unfortunately they weren’t around very long.

 

[CFMT]

You describe late season MT (as well as some other places) to a T.

There are 2 potential avenues to explore if you don’t have an external heating/drying source and you want removable liners (and they are VERY different). Plastic boots like the Scarpa Phantom 6000… or a pac boot like Schnees. Elk or mule deer in November can get down to -10 to -25. You have snowshoeing, snowmobiling, ice fishing, mountaineering, etc. So a boot built for extremely cold temperatures could be used for decades.

Unless you qualify for a Scarpa pro deal that will save you 30-40%, dumping a grand is an investment. Depending on your age and assuming you don’t get them too close to the warming fire, they would last a long, long time though. Schnees aren’t cheap either and they hold up excellent over time as well. The difference between prancing around in a plastic vs. pac boot is obvious and huge.

A 4 season mountaineering boot built for bitter cold conditions is another option, but you will deal with the challenge you mentioned above.

Check out the Phantom as well as Schnees.

I am a Montanan so I do think you have a good idea what I’m grasping at. I do have a pair of Schnees pacs, and they are nice winter boots. I prefer a much stiffer boot and I just don’t find I enjoy a long trip with a pack on in them.

I’m sure a tent with a stove Jack could remedy a lot of my problems, but I prefer a small free standing one man tent opposed to a tipi with the space for a stove.

I brushed passed the phantom in my search so I appreciate you giving me that suggestion. Thanks to everyone else’s input, I enjoy this forum quite a bit.

Whenever I come across a pair of good used plastic boots in my size, I buy them. They are out there, you just have to be patient and jump when you come across a deal.

I wear them, and respectfully disagree that they are obsolete. In fact, I moose hunt in them, caribou hunt in them, deer hunt in them, etc. They have advantages that can't be matched by any other style of boot on the market.

As for liners, I've been happy with the intuition liners I picked up at AMH. They aren't cheap, but I can get two to three years on a set of liners.

Good luck in your search. If you are looking for a particular boot and size, send me a message and I'll keep my eyes open for you.

I will be in touch. I think I am still on FNG probation however, so give me a couple more posts to get my PM privileges. I did manage to scrounge another pair of basically new Koflachs on eBay for dirt cheap.

 

[the hack]

Boot sizing and fitment is a dark art and inexact science. That said, I'd like to try a double boot. How do the OG Koflach boots compare to a Schnee's mountain boot? Does a size 9 approximate a size 9? Thanks!

 

[InkedElkSlayer]

I am a Montanan so I do think you have a good idea what I’m grasping at. I do have a pair of Schnees pacs, and they are nice winter boots. I prefer a much stiffer boot and I just don’t find I enjoy a long trip with a pack on in them.

I’m sure a tent with a stove Jack could remedy a lot of my problems, but I prefer a small free standing one man tent opposed to a tipi with the space for a stove.

I brushed passed the phantom in my search so I appreciate you giving me that suggestion. Thanks to everyone else’s input, I enjoy this forum quite a bit.

I will be in touch. I think I am still on FNG probation however, so give me a couple more posts to get my PM privileges. I did manage to scrounge another pair of basically new Koflachs on eBay for dirt cheap.

Yep, it’s a dichotomy for sure. Whatever you want to call it…”spiking out”, “backpack hunting”, or my favorite, “fly light, freeze at night”… I started doing it seriously in 1995.

At that time, “hunting” gear was absolute shit. We had to get 100% mountaineering gear. You talked about frozen boots… I lost both of my big toenails from walking down the same brutal hunt day after day in completely frozen boots. 25 years later, they still look f-cked up.

Enough war stories, I have had the same internal discussion as you are having now numerous times.

I prefer a rigid boot as well. It sounds to me like you may be a good candidate for a double boot. If so, don’t go cheap. Do it right. Get the best fitting, most comfortable double such as the 6000. Don’t get a used pair of Invernos, etc. They are expensive though man, I just looked on ExpertVoice and they are $650… and… “out of stock”. Don’t get into a rush. Keep doing your homework and then get what you’ll use for a long time. Good luck.

 

[Grant K]

I can't imagine why you would get double plastics, especially used ones in 2023, there are a dozen or more supergaiter double boots available now if you really want something with a removable liner to put in your bag overnight, same support, half or less weight, and actually significantly warmer... Scarpa 6000, Sportiva G2 or Summit, Mammut Norwand 6000, North face Torre Egger, Arcteryx Acrux, Zamberlan, Lowa off the top of my head...
Or used Sportiva Spantics and Baruntse are dirt cheap and way better than Inverno's

 

[ColeyG]

I can't imagine why you would get double plastics, especially used ones in 2023, there are a dozen or more supergaiter double boots available now if you really want something with a removable liner to put in your bag overnight, same support, half or less weight, and actually significantly warmer... Scarpa 6000, Sportiva G2 or Summit, Mammut Norwand 6000, North face Torre Egger, Arcteryx Acrux, Zamberlan, Lowa off the top of my head...
Or used Sportiva Spantics and Baruntse are dirt cheap and way better than Inverno's

Bingo.

There is a long list of reasons plastics either aren't being made anymore, are hard to find, or as the OP said, the market seems to have dried up.

Waaaay better technology has existed for a long time and are there are no upsides or advantages to a double plastic when compared to more modern offerings. None. Granted change and new/different things can be scary and I am all for sticking with tried and true, to a point...

 

[adventure907]

Bingo.

There is a long list of reasons plastics either aren't being made anymore, are hard to find, or as the OP said, the market seems to have dried up.

Waaaay better technology has existed for a long time and are there are no upsides or advantages to a double plastic when compared to more modern offerings. None. Granted change and new/different things can be scary and I am all for sticking with tried and true, to a point...

I am not familiar with the new style double boots you guys are talking about, so I'll have to look into them.

Can they be used with the glacier socks that Barneys sells?

 

[ColeyG]

I would think so. The tolerances between the shell and liner of the more modern double boots are less than the old plastics, and so the fit would be tighter, but there should be room to slip that relatively thin liner/vbl in between. Personally though I either barefoot it or take a pair of crocs for water crossings on sheep hunts. Things like the wiggies waders, glacier socks, etc. have a pretty short life span and if they fail while in the field, which which happen eventually, you are back to wet wading anyhow.

 

[44thStateSender]

I am not familiar with the new style double boots you guys are talking about, so I'll have to look into them.

Scarpa Phantom 8000 or Sportiva Olympus Mons Cube.

 

[adventure907]

I would think so. The tolerances between the shell and liner of the more modern double boots are less than the old plastics, and so the fit would be tighter, but there should be room to slip that relatively thin liner/vbl in between. Personally though I either barefoot it or take a pair of crocs for water crossings on sheep hunts. Things like the wiggies waders, glacier socks, etc. have a pretty short life span and if they fail while in the field, which which happen eventually, you are back to wet wading anyhow.

I agree, the Wiggy's are essentially a one time use item. They get a hunter by for a short period of time, but inevitably they get holes and are useless. The glacier socks on the other hand, I can get 2-3 seasons out of a pair, and I use them a lot. The ability to use glacier socks are one huge advantage of the plastic boots. When you have to cross a creek 10-15 times in the course of a mile or two, or essentially be in the creek the whole time you work up a drainage, everything is inferior to using glacier socks with plastic boots. Now, I did have a buddy hike two miles up a creek with crocs and glacier socks one time, but that didn't look like much fun and was probably a sprained ankle waiting to happen.

Anyway, I think I'll check out these new double boots you guys are referring to and see if they can match the advantages I find with wearing plastic double boots. For me anyway, I need an extremely stiff boot in the ankles. A plastic boot makes it virtually impossible to "roll" your ankle, not the case with leather boots I have tried such as, crispis, lowas's, kennetreks, etc. The durability is another advantage. Depending where a guy hunts, I've seen leather boots toasted after one hunt. Along with the aforementioned ability to use glacier socks, there are some advantages that I don't think any other boot system can match, but I digress.