Pistol caliber carbines?

[Trr15]

I’m interested in thoughts or experiences w/ pistol caliber carbines. I shoot a lot of 9mm and like the idea of having a carbine chambered in the same that uses the same Glock mags. No particular use case in mind, just a range toy that I may throw in a duffle bag every now and then when I travel. I’m eyeing the Ruger PC Charger. It gets excellent reviews and looks like it would be a blast to shoot with a red dot optic. Anyone have any experience with these or similar pcc’s?

 

[RockAndSage]

They're a great addition to most gun safes, because of the versatility and options they give you, and are a lot cheaper to shoot. If you're talking about an AR variant, they're also a great training aid because of that, especially the blowback variants that have heavier recoil. They're great for teaching recoil management.

The biggest thing about AR variants is to know that they are not all equal - they do best with a properly formed 360-degree feed cone around the back of the chamber, rather than just some type of a feed ramp at the 6 o'clock position. It's also really easy for a company to screw up regarding the angle of the magazine well, which screws up the angle at which the cartridges feed, which is a common source of malfunctions. Those are the two biggest things to be aware of.

 

[Nine Banger]

I think you will like it.

Glock mags are key.

I picked up a JP-5 to shoot a second gun in USPSA Steel Challenge.

I was looking at a Colt 6951 but I'm glad I went with a platform that uses Glock mags.

I run a second upper w/ 8" barrel with thermal and suppressor and love it. I'm hiking with it nightly right now on my moose tag training hikes.

I run 33rd Glock mags at Steel Challenge and hike with a G19 mag.

I like having the AR ergonomics back without the fireball. I had ARs for a while and sold them all because I didn't like having a suppressor out on the end of a 16" barrel and didn't like the noise on my 10.5" suppressed upper. A 9mm AR is perfect.

 

[NIHUNTR]

They're a great addition to most gun safes, because of the versatility and options they give you, and are a lot cheaper to shoot. If you're talking about an AR variant, they're also a great training aid because of that, especially the blowback variants that have heavier recoil. They're great for teaching recoil management.

The biggest thing about AR variants is to know that they are not all equal - they do best with a properly formed 360-degree feed cone around the back of the chamber, rather than just some type of a feed ramp at the 6 o'clock position. It's also really easy for a company to screw up regarding the angle of the magazine well, which screws up the angle at which the cartridges feed, which is a common source of malfunctions. Those are the two biggest things to be aware of.

Do you know much about 9mm variants in terms of reliability? This sounds like a good thing to pick up.

 

[Trr15]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback and an AR variant (which the Ruger is not) may be the way to go. I like the idea of a platform similar to my other ARs. I was initially thinking of something to just toy around with, but the secondary benefit of being able to train with lower cost ammo is appealing.

@RockAndSage - you may have just solved a feeding problem I’m having with a 300 blackout build I just put together. Thanks for the insight.

 

[RockAndSage]

Do you know much about 9mm variants in terms of reliability? This sounds like a good thing to pick up.

I know more about what makes them work than which brands work better. That said, I own a Macon Armory 9mm and it's been flawless. Largely because of the things I mentioned above. The owner has been one of the pioneers on making them run well, especially with glock mags.

 

[RockAndSage]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback and an AR variant (which the Ruger is not) may be the way to go. I like the idea of a platform similar to my other ARs. I was initially thinking of something to just toy around with, but the secondary benefit of being able to train with lower cost ammo is appealing.

@RockAndSage - you may have just solved a feeding problem I’m having with a 300 blackout build I just put together. Thanks for the insight.

I might be able to help you with that. Can you describe specifically what exactly is happening with the malfunction?

 

[Trr15]

I might be able to help you with that. Can you describe specifically what exactly is happening with the malfunction?

I’m trying to run 220gr subsonic loads and I can’t get them to feed from mag. To be more specific, the bolt doesn’t fully close and the round won’t fully chamber. No issues firing when single feeding directly into the chamber. I think the feed ramp angle might the the issue, but I’ve also only tried .223/5.56 mags. I should probably buy 300aac specific mags and try those first. Lighter weight bullets run fine.

 

[Mildot]

I have a Ruger PC carbine and really like it. Never had a malfunction and it is very accurate at 50 yards [farthest I have shot it] with the factory sights. It is a little heavy though. The Magpul stock lightened it up some. I use Magpul brand Glock mags in it and no issues with them. I might try a red dot on it because my eyes are getting bad.

 

[Encore4me]

I have the CMMG Banchee. 9mm, Glock Mags. Check them out, one of the nicer PCC’s.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KenLee]

The Ruger is very accurate for what it is. Actually practical.
If you are more interested in a light cheap fun pistol caliber carbine, take a look at the Extars.

 

[RockAndSage]

I’m trying to run 220gr subsonic loads and I can’t get them to feed from mag. To be more specific, the bolt doesn’t fully close and the round won’t fully chamber. No issues firing when single feeding directly into the chamber. I think the feed ramp angle might the the issue, but I’ve also only tried .223/5.56 mags. I should probably buy 300aac specific mags and try those first. Lighter weight bullets run fine.

What you're describing generally means that not enough energy is being applied to the moving parts, relative to the resistance.

Essentially, the BCG isn't moving backwards with enough force to overcome friction and the weight of the buffer and recoil spring, to then get flung forward with enough energy to strip a round off the mag and then fully chamber it. So, you need to either add energy, or reduce resistance.

The only ways to really add energy to a DI AR is to either increase the amount of gas going through the gas tube and into the BCG (adjustable gas block), or to use more powerful ammo. Your problem may also go away by adding a suppressor - the backpressure they generally cause means quite a bit more PSI being applied to the bolt face after it unlocks, increasing its velocity backward.

To reduce resistance, you can either drop to a lower weight buffer, or a lower powered recoil spring. I'd go with lighter buffer first, as you want the energy that spring absorbs to be used in flinging the BCG forward again. A lighter spring will generally mean less energy being applied on the forward stroke. Also, be sure to be using a high quality, very slick gun lubricant to minimize energy loss from friction - something on the thicker side, not something thin like CLP or Rem Oil.

 

[NIHUNTR]

Thanks guys. I appreciate the feedback and an AR variant (which the Ruger is not) may be the way to go. I like the idea of a platform similar to my other ARs. I was initially thinking of something to just toy around with, but the secondary benefit of being able to train with lower cost ammo is appealing.

@RockAndSage - you may have just solved a feeding problem I’m having with a 300 blackout build I just put together. Thanks for the insight.

I am very interested in an AR variant. Going to start researching that.

 

[TN2shot07]

I like this approach but I wanted the more traditional version. 1894 in 357 and a revolver of your choosing, I’ve had good luck with S&W and Ruger but the new Colts look pretty sweet.

 

[Trr15]

What you're describing generally means that not enough energy is being applied to the moving parts, relative to the resistance.

Essentially, the BCG isn't moving backwards with enough force to overcome friction and the weight of the buffer and recoil spring, to then get flung forward with enough energy to strip a round off the mag and then fully chamber it. So, you need to either add energy, or reduce resistance.

The only ways to really add energy to a DI AR is to either increase the amount of gas going through the gas tube and into the BCG (adjustable gas block), or to use more powerful ammo. Your problem may also go away by adding a suppressor - the backpressure they generally cause means quite a bit more PSI being applied to the bolt face after it unlocks, increasing its velocity backward.

To reduce resistance, you can either drop to a lower weight buffer, or a lower powered recoil spring. I'd go with lighter buffer first, as you want the energy that spring absorbs to be used in flinging the BCG forward again. A lighter spring will generally mean less energy being applied on the forward stroke. Also, be sure to be using a high quality, very slick gun lubricant to minimize energy loss from friction - something on the thicker side, not something thin like CLP or Rem Oil.

Thank you for taking the time to provide this detail. I have a suppressor ordered but no idea when the paperwork will be finalized and I’ll actually get it. I’ll try a lighter buffer and thicker oil in the meantime (currently using clp). Truly appreciate the insight.