Peterson pressure 6.5 cm

il_cop

Lil-Rokslider
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West slope CO
Looking for some guidance here....

Tikka 20" 6.5 cm
Peterson brass once fired
143 ELDX .05 jump/ 2.24 cbto/ 2.88 coal
240 rounds down tube
OG 6.5
WLR primers

40 gr h4350
2595 avg.
45 es 15 sd
2577 - 2622

Heavy bolt lift and extractor marks on 1/4 cases

Just keep dropping the charge (?)
Seems super low already but velocity seems to track, though I'm seeing reports of higher charges and velocity here and elsewhere.


Tight chamber?
Is this just what the rifle's gonna give me?

Anything you can think of or recommend?

Appreciate it
 
Extrapolating to my 24.3" CTR barrel, it gets about the same before getting sticky bolt lift.

140 Hybrids to low 2700s, 144 LRHT to around 2670 is about max i can run with Lapua or Norma brass and h4350 without frequent heavy bolt lift. Even that gets a little sticky time to time. So with the 4" of additional barrel length and larger capacity brass, that tracks close to what you're seeing.

I know others push em faster, maybe their tolerance for sticky bolt lift is higher than mine or they just have setups that dont show it as much.

Also, if you were shooting into the wind and it was cool out, i've had bolt thrust issues show up way earlier when shooting suppressed in such conditions.
 
Looking for some guidance here....

Tikka 20" 6.5 cm
Peterson brass once fired
143 ELDX .05 jump/ 2.24 cbto/ 2.88 coal
240 rounds down tube
OG 6.5
WLR primers

40 gr h4350
2595 avg.
45 es 15 sd
2577 - 2622

Heavy bolt lift and extractor marks on 1/4 cases

Just keep dropping the charge (?)
Seems super low already but velocity seems to track, though I'm seeing reports of higher charges and velocity here and elsewhere.


Tight chamber?
Is this just what the rifle's gonna give me?

Anything you can think of or recommend?

Appreciate it

Like you said, the velocity seems to track....Roughly 2600fps out of a 20" barrel is in the right ballpark.

Peterson brass is known to have lower case volume. I don't have direct experience with it, but lots of reports of around 1 grain difference out there.

So yeah, below 40gr may feel a touch low, but I wouldn't think really outside of expected range.
 
Also confirming that tracks. My SA Redline 20" starts to get a touch sticky at ~2620fps with 147 ELDM in Lapua brass and 41.0gr H4350.
 
I would try shortening your coal. I personal shoot mine at 2.845 with 41.0 h4350 in Peterson brass and can be right on the pressure line.
I would load up 5 to 10 at 2.800 and maybe 2.845 and see how they shoot
if you loading .050 off and your coal is 2.880 it seems like your max coal is a little long
 
I would try shortening your coal. I personal shoot mine at 2.845 with 41.0 h4350 in Peterson brass and can be right on the pressure line.
I would load up 5 to 10 at 2.800 and maybe 2.845 and see how they shoot
if you loading .050 off and your coal is 2.880 it seems like your max coal is a little long

I'm pretty sure I had to be over 3" COAL to hit lands with 140 hybrid or 144 LRHT in my CTR tube. Long throats in those tikka 6.5s.

Not disagreeing that shorter COAL might show less pressure but rather that the COAL at Jam doesn't seem unreasonable.
 
I'm pretty sure I had to be over 3" COAL to hit lands with 140 hybrid or 144 LRHT in my CTR tube. Long throats in those tikka 6.5s.

Not disagreeing that shorter COAL might show less pressure but rather that the COAL at Jam doesn't seem unreasonable.
Ya with Berger bullets you will get a much longer coal compared to Hornady which will be shorter.
 
What's the general consensus?
Drop the charge to 39.7 and keep the coal?
Or keep the charge @ 40 and shorten the coal?

Besides fixing the pressure issue, I'd like to tighten up the es... I'm assuming they're related.

So much for the painless method!?

This is the first rifle I've had to chase like this.
 
Drop 0.3 and seat a little deeper.

That said, you're seeing pressure signs on 1 in 4 firings, meaning pressure signs are not an exact line like people pretend it is. Dropping powder charge less than 1% is far from a guarantee you wont still have some rounds exhibit pressure signs.

This is one of the reasons I pulled my CTR tube before it was dead.. If I was loading a shorty tikka 6.5 creed barrel, i'd probably lean towards 130 TMKS to get velocity.
 
I'm fine if I land at 2550-75, no worries. Just want to get rid of the pressure.

I have a ton of 143s from another 6.5 build that I want to get through before I invest in 130s. But youre on point, probably the the better choice.
 
I alao have a 20" tikka CM and I run 42gr in Lapua, also with 0.050" jump and get 2640ish FPS without significant pressure. 40gr seems like a low charge unless Peterson brass has a substantially smaller powder capacity. Can you look up your case volume using the lot # for your brass, or measure it? I'm curious to run your load in GRT and compare the calculated pressure to my load.

Seasting deeper will increase pressure, iirc 1500 psi per 0.02" deeper based on modeling in GRT. Ill confirm.
 
I alao have a 20" tikka CM and I run 42gr in Lapua, also with 0.050" jump and get 2640ish FPS without significant pressure. 40gr seems like a low charge unless Peterson brass has a substantially smaller powder capacity. Can you look up your case volume using the lot # for your brass, or measure it? I'm curious to run your load in GRT and compare the calculated pressure to my load.

Sesting deeper will increase pressure, iirc 1500 psi per 0.02" deeper based on modeling in GRT. Ill confirm.

Peterson generally runs a bit smaller volume then Lapua.

Most books are going to be listing max at or very near`s 41gr with a 140gr class long bullet running in the 2.8-2.825 range.

And yeah, seating deeper equals more pressure.
 
@Andouille thank you. I'll send water weight in the morning.

The original load was seated with .035 jump. It didn't have pressure but the es was 50. So much I could see it a 100. I seated deeper to see if it would even out the pressure curve and what I saw is what's posted here

Agree on pressure increase if I seat deeper, I was confused by that suggestion. Anything I'm missing there?
 
@Andouille thank you. I'll send water weight in the morning.

The original load was seated with .035 jump. It didn't have pressure but the es was 50. So much I could see it a 100. I seated deeper to see if it would even out the pressure curve and what I saw is what's posted here

Agree on pressure increase if I seat deeper, I was confused by that suggestion. Anything I'm missing there?

You aren't missing anything on the pressure thing....Deeper means more pressure, which means backing off powder more.

Personally I don't think there is anything crazy going on here. Your just kinda at the bottom of the range for potentially multiple reasons, Peterson brass definitely has less capacity, Your jug of powder may be on the spicy side of there tolerances, your primers may be on the spicy side of their tolerances, you may have even tighter then normal Peterson brass.

If you were pressuring out down around 38gr or something I would raise an eyebrow.

I would load 5 or 10 more at 40gr btw with only 1 being spicy and test....or...drop to 39.5gr...or....if you want a bit more gas out of it, N555, RL16 and staball 6.5 are options that are faster for testing.
 
I alao have a 20" tikka CM and I run 42gr in Lapua, also with 0.050" jump and get 2640ish FPS without significant pressure. 40gr seems like a low charge unless Peterson brass has a substantially smaller powder capacity. Can you look up your case volume using the lot # for your brass, or measure it? I'm curious to run your load in GRT and compare the calculated pressure to my load.

Seasting deeper will increase pressure, iirc 1500 psi per 0.02" deeper based on modeling in GRT. Ill confirm.

Water capacity (gr)
Fired - 51.6
Fired Resized - 50.4

I think that answers it. Lmk what you think
 
And yeah, seating deeper equals more pressure.
Agree on pressure increase if I seat deeper, I was confused by that suggestion. Anything I'm missing there?

To say seating shorter or longer increases or decreases pressure unequivocally would be wrong. I assume it's dependent on bullet, powder, case fill, etc. From the study/graph below, lowest pressure was jumping 0.250" to lands. Be interested in what GRT has to say about this specific use case.

1774363946458.png
 
Water capacity (gr)
Fired - 51.6
Fired Resized - 50.4
I think that answers it. Lmk what you think
Your fired vs resized volumes seem typical, and most of the case size reduction is in the neck which gets resized a fair bit more than the shoulder. I have a few measurements from 2 cases each for comparison:
-Hornady fired and resized (0.003 shoulder bump) has a volume around 52.9 grains; this is large due to thin case walls.
-Starline new is 50.85 (I've not measured afterwards)
-Lapua new 50.85, fired 52.15, and 51.50 resized.
So this suggests that your Peterson brass has reduced volume compared to Hornady, Starline, or Lapua.

Plugging your load into GRT:
-2.880" COAL, 40 gr H4350, 50.4 gr H2O case capacity, and adjusted for longer "tikka throat" results in:
2569 FPS at 54,795 PSI.
GRT suggests that your load is safely below peak pressure at an average velocity of 2569 and you are a little higher velocity at 2,595, still within safe range per GRT.
For comparison, GRT calculates my load 2.886 COAL, 42 gr H4350, 51.5 gr H2O at 2,666 fps at 60,641 psi, and my actual velocity is 2,671 (30 round average)- so very close to GRT result. DISCLAIMER- I'm OK with being just above SAAMI pressure.
GRT simulation suggests that you're below pressure and at a very safe load- but there may be intangible factors in your actual gun/load that create the pressure signs you see.

Bumping COAL back to 2.870" to simulate deeper seating gives 2,573 fps at 55,163 PSI. Not as dramatic of a pressure increase as I thought, but that may be because the load is not near peak pressure for the case per GRT. Around 0.050" jump seems to be the most common jump used for 143eldx in 6.5CM and has worked great for me- no reason to fiddle with your jump based on pressure signs as you're near the optimal seating depth range.

So this leads me to wonder if your die is not fully resizing the case or sizing far enough down the case. What die are you using at what does your resizing procedure entail?

Lastly, if you want to get real tedious to get a more objective and quantitative assessment of pressure, shoot a pressure ladder and measure casehead expansion. For your charge I would do 2x each of 39, 39.5, 40, 40.5, 41, 41.5, and 42gr and measure the casehead diameter with a micrometer (take largest measurement above casehead, average 2 cases per charge). STOP WHEN YOU SEE EXCESSIVE PRESSURE SIGNS. Plot the expansion (it will be in the 1-2.5 thou range) and look for maximum casehead expansion where the expansion plateaus. You will want to load to below the plateau, which is where the brass is not stressed beyond it's ability to springback. For example, with my brass I see 1.1 thou casehead expansion at 42.2gr, so I load H4350 to 40 gr which gives me around 0.8-.9 thou expansion, indicating that the brass still has springback and has not been pushed into plastic deformation ranges, which correlate with excessive pressures in GRT (greater than 61.5 to >62K PSI).

I have tested casehead expansion up to ludicrous speed and pressure using very slow H4831SC which allows for a very gradual pressure ladder, with the max charge of 47.2gr yielding 2,849 fps at >64K PSI (NOT SAFE, DO NOT REPLICATE) and a plateau around 1.3 thou of casehead expansion above 46gr. Again, no need to run to this extreme with H4350 which is less safe to over-load.
 
To say seating shorter or longer increases or decreases pressure unequivocally would be wrong. I assume it's dependent on bullet, powder, case fill, etc. From the study/graph below, lowest pressure was jumping 0.250" to lands. Be interested in what GRT has to say about this specific use case.
Very interesting- I still don't get how reducing case volume substantially by seating deeper wouldn't affect pressure, much in the same way changing brass volume affects velocity. I'm short on time now but will run GRT in a week or so and plot the results on a similar graph. The caveat is that I'm unsure if GRT will model a jammed bullet, so the output may be more linear in the longer COAL end of the chart.
 
Try perciseload.com

Its like "quickload" but free - can model different throat lengths, coal lengths, brass capacity, powders, bullets, etc to predict pressure.

Id bet youre on the edge of pressure, id back off its not worth it as replacing a face isnt cheap or practical.
 
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