Peep Sight Chicanery

[CodeMonkey]

I am gearing up for my first non-archery hunting season (thanks to a bad shoulder) and am running into some fun issues. I have a CVA MR-X that I was previously shooting well with the factory sights. That said, the sights felt a little coarse for my liking, so I went ahead and installed the Williams Western Precision set (the ones with the globe front and interchangeable inserts). Since then, things have been "interesting"...

First range trip with a fine crosshair, I had issues with the crosshair becoming "washed out". That said, I was able to (after some wrangling) get the gun zeroed. I was at the last tick mark on the rear sight (all the way down) and still grouping 1.5'' high at 100 yards. Initially, with the rear sight in the center of travel, I was 7'' high at 50 yards.

Next range trip I swapped the fine crosshair with a green fiber. Shot the gun and confirmed was impacting high. Then the tail chasing really started. With the sun angle at the range, the green fiber was basically totally washed out (bright target plus shooting from a shaded bench). I started having trouble even hitting paper. Took a breath and realized that I couldn't make out the front sight well, so I unscrewed the aperture (just using the rear as a "ghost ring"). In this configuration, the rear sight immediately becomes fuzzy for me as I address the gun. I was still missing paper at 100, so I went back to 50. Eventually I adjusted the sight to where I was impacting 2'' high at 50 yards. Went back to 100 and the gun is zeroed. Now (with the aperture removed), I am in the middle of the rear sight's elevation travel. I am not a huge fan of this configuration since it is somewhat easy to not align the front and rear for me now since the rear is so fuzzy. I almost have to concentrate on the rear first to ensure I have good alignment, then go back to the front sight.

I am wondering what on earth is going on here. My plan is to try a red fiber and maybe overlay a coarse crosshair. With the factory sights, I never had an issue picking up the front sight. It was always bright in the same lighting conditions. With the globe front (note I do have the one "designed" for fiber inserts with the slots) and the aperture installed in the rear, the front becomes fuzzy for me and I'm having issues picking it up (fiber gets lost on a bright target), and when I do pick it up, it seems like the sights are hitting way high.

My eyes aren't getting any younger, but I'm wondering if what I'm rambling about here is "normal" for folks with older eyes and if I should maybe try a different sight configuration.

 

[ElDiablito]

Sounds like a couple things are going on. You don’t have the front designed for fiber optic so you may always have trouble with the fiber optic being bright enough.

If you’re much over forty, odds are your eye will have a tough time seeing the front sight clearly. You probably need a smaller peep aperture to allow you to see it clearly. I’d try a smaller aperture. An adjustable aperture peep is perfect for this.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Sounds like a couple things are going on. You don’t have the front designed for fiber optic so you may always have trouble with the fiber optic being bright enough.

If you’re much over forty, odds are your eye will have a tough time seeing the front sight clearly. You probably need a smaller peep aperture to allow you to see it clearly. I’d try a smaller aperture. An adjustable aperture peep is perfect for this.

I do have the front globe sight with the slots. The fiber seems bright enough (even in shade) until I aim at a bright target, where it gets lost. I can also confirm (using the window wells in my basement as a test case) that red or green doesn't matter. If I try to aim on a bright target with the gun in a shaded area, the fiber totally disappears and I'm left with a post. This was not an issue with the factory sights, where the fiber front is totally exposed. This may very well be a case of me "fixing" something that was working previously.

In terms of apertures, I guess I'm aiming this like my bow, where I attempt to center the circle of globe inside the circle of the rear sight. As a result, with the aperture installed, I no longer have that "circle on circle" reference since I am now looking "inside the globe" and trying to align things differently.

I turned 38 last week and am somewhat near sighted with astigmatism only in my non-dominant (left) eye.

 

[100%DIYazCOUES]

I have similar issues. What I ended up doing was stacking the fine crosshair and a thick , 4 arrows pointing to the open center type crosshair. I painted the thick one white after trying fluorescent green, and fluorescent pink. I’ve found I can usually see the fine crosshair. Occasionally, usually with low light and/or a dark background, I can still easily make out the thick white sight when I can’t see the fine crosshair well. Works for me! I use a western precision sight. I also took the whole peep ring out and use the remaining circle for the rear sight. I can see the entire front sight that way, and center the front sight ring inside the peep just like shooting a bow

 

[ElDiablito]

Ok - I misread the sentence on your front.

In any case, you may need a smaller rear aperture. You shouldn’t need a “circle in circle” for a peep to work. Although, I get that you’re used to that with a bow. Historically, rifle peeps haven’t been designed or used that way. Your eye should naturally center the front post/dot in the rear aperture.

Sight Radius, Iron Sight Aperture, and Target Fideility - The New Rifleman

Focus on the front sight, crystal clear... pull the trigger slowly to the rear. Ding! Hit! The above mantra is baked into many a seasoned rifleman's mind. If it isn't baked into your own mind, perhaps you entered the world of the AR15 in the post iron sights era. Hey, it's not a bad thing,

thenewrifleman.com

 

[100%DIYazCOUES]

Agreed that you don’t need to see the front sight ring, just like you don’t need to with a bow. However, after shooting quite a bit, trying to figure out a setup, my groups were considerably tighter with this setup. Worked for me, was just throwing out ideas possibly worth trying. And I’m no competition shooter, I’ll only shoot 200 yards at a deer….

 

[CodeMonkey]

For me the issue is thousands of arrows of pre-programming. That would certainly explain the POI shift by just changing out the rear sight aperture.

Tomorrow is range day and I hope to finalize my sight configuration. Currently have it set up with a red fiber (.029) and a thick crosshair.

 

[MallardSX2]

Literally the same exact problem I had 2 days ago.

I ordered a .050 peep. Should be here Monday. Hopefully it clears up that front sight for me.

 

[cnelk]

As you age, your eyes see green better than red.

I have that Tshirt

 

[TaperPin]

I have a globe front, but like a simple post insert. I’ve had fiber optic and never cared for it.

 

[CodeMonkey]

Took the new front insert combination for a spin. I currently have the .029 red fiber combined with a thick crosshair. I have also removed the aperture from the rear sight to give me a larger opening.

My eyes seem to like this set up. I shot a 2'' group at one point. That said, it seems like there's some issues with horizontal stringing that I have to work out. My 2'' group has all bullets hitting the same elevation, but spaced out left to right.

Also, initially I was missing about 5'' high at 100 and had to dial the sight down. That said, I am still well within the adjustment range of the rear (I was at the very limit with the rear aperture installed previously and still hitting high). Moral of the story seems to be that my brain/eyes line things up slightly differently based on what is presented to them. So while "just" changing the front insert shouldn't impact POI, it does in my case.

Still testing, but I think I have a sight combo that will work for me in September.

 

[ElDiablito]

If it’s really stringing horizontally, that may be your shooting form or it could be a system issue/bedding - like something is loose.

 

[CodeMonkey]

If it’s really stringing horizontally, that may be your shooting form or it could be a system issue/bedding - like something is loose.

That's well within the realm of possibilities. I was shooting off of a rest that has seen better days and found myself needing to adjust the "fork" where the gun rests since it seemed to want to go cock-eyed on me.

Trigger squeeze is not a strong suit of mine, but something I'm working on with dry fire practice. Strong chance I pulled one or more as a result.

In terms of the sights, with the aperture removed, I do have to really focus and ensure that the rear is still aligned (usually this is a left-right issue) since the rear now just disappears from my sight picture.

More practice/testing coming, but I feel like I at least have a front insert that works for me. Confidence is increasing.

 

[CMF]

i'm trained on a bow as well and always center my peep and sight housing. I went with a larger aperture than the stock mrx came with and painted the face of my front globe with a silver sharpee to better see it. Me and the wife both liked the fiber optic over the crosshairs as the crosshairs seemed easy to lose focus and lose at dusk.

 

[Woitey]

I just went through this mess with a new to me Cooper MZ. This one has a fluted barrel and the gunsmith didn't want to drill a front post. I got a globe from Arrowhead for the price of a kidney, and with a couple of shims to get it to fit the barrel and a gallon of loctite, I had a front sight that was so high that I needed FAA clearance. Went to Farrell bought a 20 MOA rail, and went through five rear sights. They were either too high or too low, and none of them had the adjustment even to get it close. I ended up with a LPA shotgun sight from Italy that fits a Browning A5. I'm not going to win any matches with it but I think I'm good at least to 50 yards...

 

[CodeMonkey]

Wanted to give everyone an update. I went ahead and put the aperture back into the rear sight (no POI shift this time, so it was me all along) and reprogrammed my brain. I was just too inaccurate with just the rear sight housing (i.e., "ghost ring" mode). My head position could be off a little bit and it still felt like the sights were aligned, but this would translate to about a 5'' miss at 100 yards.

Ultimately, the most accurate sights I have found for my eyes were the factory ones (fiber front post and peep rear). The front fiber being totally exposed leads to some durability concerns, but it always finds some sunshine and glows brightly. Just like with archery, I went down a rabbit hole, spent some money, and in the end the limiting factor with accuracy turned out to be the guy running the trigger.