Patterning Unpatternable Mountain Deer

[GodsCountry]

Gentleman, I’ve come to this forum for some good discussion on hunting mountain whitetails. I’ve read some of the threads here and took away some good information already. The age of the internet is awesome, but you still have to dig to find information on hunting eastern mountain deer.

I’m hunting public in Western NC. It’s not hundreds of thousands of acres of continuous woods, but it’s not Midwestern wood lots either. There is a lot of diversity. Native grass fields, small 1 acre food plots, oaks, hemlocks, rhododendron thickets, young pines, clear cuts, walnuts, more oaks, open hardwoods, and dense youth growth. Hunting pressure is what I would consider low. I’m normally ¾ mile away from the nearest hunter. Deer density is certainly low. The terrain varies about 500 feet. Rolling hills to 200 foot cliffs. My trail camera observations are that the buck to doe ratio is probably 1:2. 2.5/3.5 year old bucks are not uncommon, despite the low deer density.


“Hunt bedding areas”
I’m probably an outlier here, but I don’t see what people refer to as bedding areas. I think mountain deer can bed on any 2’x3’ flat of ground they want. I also think that the lack of hunting pressure does not force them to find “bedding sanctuaries” or “bedding areas”. I’ve run trail cameras over beds and found that they might be used once or twice a week for 30 minutes at a time, by different does and bucks. Talk about low odds if you were hunting over that bed. I find lightly used beds. Some are almost undetectable. I’ve never found a bed that was just worn down 2 inches into the soil. I once heard Steve Flores say that bedding in the mountains is in a shotgun pattern, meaning scattered throughout the woods. I tend to agree with that. Are there a good deal of beds on points at the 1/3 elevation? Yes. Is that a solid hunting strategy? I don’t know. It hasn’t worked for me yet.


“Hunt Oaks dropping acorns”
I have to laugh at this one. When acorns are dropping, I can find a producing oak tree every 50 yards. On top of that, acorns roll down hills to areas where there might not even be oaks. I can walk in rhododendron thickets and find acorns just scattered about from the oaks uphill. I just don’t see how that is a winning strategy.


“Deer need water close by”
There is a seep or draw or creek or river within 200 yards of any direction where I hunt. I cant see it influencing deer movement much.


“Look for sign”
I used to get very excited to find scrapes and rubs. The more I learn about my area, the more I think they have little to no value as far as hunting intel. It’s cool to know there are bucks around. But I already know that from trail cameras. I’ve wasted a good deal of time hunting over areas that are torn up with rubs and scrapes.

The sign I find the most valuable is fresh scat. My theory is that if you find an area with ground cover and a high concentration of scat, you’ve found somewhere where deer are comfortable and are spending time, maybe in the daylight.


“Set up on a funnel, deer are lazy, they take the path of least resistance”
I think there is some truth here, but I also think cover takes priority over taking the easy path. My observations have shown me that deer walk wherever the hell they feel like it. The only thing I think truly influencing their movement is cliffs or rock outcroppings.

I try to have a small scale funnel at every spot I hunt, whether it is a downed tree or a small depression at the head of a draw. When I do see deer, I’m usually humbled when I watch them bypass my funnel with ease. I’ve set up trail cameras on skidder trails, benches, draw crossings, ect… and been very underwhelmed with the results. A buck might walk through any given funnel in daylight every 10-14 days. I really want funnel hunting to be the winning ticket. I just haven’t figured it out yet.

To those of you that are funnel hunters, are you sitting at the same funnel for days? Or being mobile? Hunting it once and done?
I’ve laid eyes on deer on ridges, side hills, bowls, beside draws, creek bottoms, ect… I’ve not seen anything so frequently that I think deer prefer a certain type of terrain. I do think following tracks in the snow is very helpful to understand movement.


What is your strategy? What have you eliminated as a poor strategy? What have you learned? How do you put the odds in your favor?

 

[mfllood3800]

White tail, as any other animal will adjust to the area it calls home, as well as pressure in any season. I have watched deer maintain a perimeter of 2-5 miles.

You list a bunch of individual items to look for and they are all good, especially when stacked together. Alone they can be hit or miss.
White tail especially are super keen to movement and smell.

Beds, food and water with cover, scrapes and funnel areas are great finds, and increases the odds in your favor.
Those scrapes are decent indicators to a specific territory one buck claims. Finding him in the rut is easier than not in the rut.
Funnel areas are valid, but when hunt season, even in low pressure scenarios, deer will by pass everything easy cause their will to live is greater than yours to kill

I ran cameras and developed an algorithm on the patterns and used that.
If I didn't see animals in this spot today, I went to the next spot until I matched them up with their pattern, and then I was able to guestimate their next location pretty good.

When in such a large area with deer having dozens of bed, food, water, cover options, they have the advantage.
That is unless you use hunt pressure to your advantage.
Knowing their pattern, you can sort of utilize the trails and easy places other hunters will travel and explore, and you will know deer wont be there, so it narrows down your choices even more.

I grew up white tail hunting and they seem to disappear when the hunt starts. But they just move later in evening and earlier in the mornings, depending on weather, pressure etc...

I compare Wisc white tail to Az desert mule deer- super skiddish and they don't miss a movement.
I realized I was usually closer to them than ever realized, and that they saw/winded me before I saw them, and left the area.

 

[Backpack Hunter]

I have found more success finding areas where deer like to be. I know that sounds super generic and basic, but I have found hunting public land in western NC deer bed where they want, feed where they want, and travel wherever they feel like. Having said that, there are general areas where they travel through to get to wherever they feel like being that day. They rarely if ever take the same trail, but they will typically be in a generalized area.
All in all I would consider yourself blessed if you are getting low hunting pressure in western NC. I'm not sure where you are at in western NC, but if you can keep that 3/4 mile distance between you and other hunters you are probably going to be in some deer.

 

[Molon Labe]

It sounds like you are looking for advice early season before rut.
If that is what you want to do then...
I would suggest scout standing a bunch. Keeping very good logs.
Hunt the same area for several years and you will learn habits of the mature bucks.

When you talk about deer bedding areas you are getting a bit specific when you mention one bed.
Most "bedding areas" are 1-5 acres in size. And you can find them easily scouting after season looking for concentrated doe sign/feces.

The way to overcome hard to pattern deer is volume.
As in lots of hours in a tree.

I prefer to use my hours of hunting during prerut/rut when they are on their feet during daylight.
I can only sit about 120-150hrs a year now because of family.
If you can find a good funnel/edge zone between a couple bedding areas sit the stand dark to dark for 6-7 days straight you will have a chance at a good buck. This is a fact. Think pinball machine. Get yourself in that middle bumper and odds are the ball will hit you at some point.

Guys will talk about burning out a stand...you can early season if you have deer around you a bunch.
But rut stands are not on food sources or bedding zones.
Three of my 4yr old plus bucks came after hunting the same stand for over 5 days straight.
It's worth it.

 

[GodsCountry]

White tail, as any other animal will adjust to the area it calls home, as well as pressure in any season. I have watched deer maintain a perimeter of 2-5 miles.

You list a bunch of individual items to look for and they are all good, especially when stacked together. Alone they can be hit or miss.
White tail especially are super keen to movement and smell.

Beds, food and water with cover, scrapes and funnel areas are great finds, and increases the odds in your favor.
Those scrapes are decent indicators to a specific territory one buck claims. Finding him in the rut is easier than not in the rut.
Funnel areas are valid, but when hunt season, even in low pressure scenarios, deer will by pass everything easy cause their will to live is greater than yours to kill

I ran cameras and developed an algorithm on the patterns and used that.
If I didn't see animals in this spot today, I went to the next spot until I matched them up with their pattern, and then I was able to guestimate their next location pretty good.

When in such a large area with deer having dozens of bed, food, water, cover options, they have the advantage.
That is unless you use hunt pressure to your advantage.
Knowing their pattern, you can sort of utilize the trails and easy places other hunters will travel and explore, and you will know deer wont be there, so it narrows down your choices even more.

I grew up white tail hunting and they seem to disappear when the hunt starts. But they just move later in evening and earlier in the mornings, depending on weather, pressure etc...

I compare Wisc white tail to Az desert mule deer- super skiddish and they don't miss a movement.
I realized I was usually closer to them than ever realized, and that they saw/winded me before I saw them, and left the area.

Interesting about your algorithm. I've ran cameras year round, switching locations maybe once a month. No matter where I've placed them, a mature buck in daylight once a week is average. I've even matched up the wind direction and didn't find a pattern.

Yes, I can use hunter pressure to my advantage. One little 200 foot ridge prevents 90% of the hunters from venturing too far from the parking lot. I completely avoid the most hunted spots.

 

[GodsCountry]

I have found more success finding areas where deer like to be. I know that sounds super generic and basic, but I have found hunting public land in western NC deer bed where they want, feed where they want, and travel wherever they feel like. Having said that, there are general areas where they travel through to get to wherever they feel like being that day. They rarely if ever take the same trail, but they will typically be in a generalized area.
All in all I would consider yourself blessed if you are getting low hunting pressure in western NC. I'm not sure where you are at in western NC, but if you can keep that 3/4 mile distance between you and other hunters you are probably going to be in some deer.

Yeah, I love to hear more about what you think makes an area desirable travel area for deer.

3/4 mile during bow season is a given for me. Firearm season, it might be closer to 1/2 mile. I've got some landlocked public land that I have access to. Also there is one main parking area. No dispersed parking. It keeps people close to their trucks and hunting the same patch of woods. Guys in Michigan and Pennsylvania public can see orange around them 360 degrees, so I think we really have it good here in that aspect.

 

[GodsCountry]

It sounds like you are looking for advice early season before rut.
If that is what you want to do then...
I would suggest scout standing a bunch. Keeping very good logs.
Hunt the same area for several years and you will learn habits of the mature bucks.

When you talk about deer bedding areas you are getting a bit specific when you mention one bed.
Most "bedding areas" are 1-5 acres in size. And you can find them easily scouting after season looking for concentrated doe sign/feces.

The way to overcome hard to pattern deer is volume.
As in lots of hours in a tree.

I prefer to use my hours of hunting during prerut/rut when they are on their feet during daylight.
I can only sit about 120-150hrs a year now because of family.
If you can find a good funnel/edge zone between a couple bedding areas sit the stand dark to dark for 6-7 days straight you will have a chance at a good buck. This is a fact. Think pinball machine. Get yourself in that middle bumper and odds are the ball will hit you at some point.

Guys will talk about burning out a stand...you can early season if you have deer around you a bunch.
But rut stands are not on food sources or bedding zones.
Three of my 4yr old plus bucks came after hunting the same stand for over 5 days straight.
It's worth it.

I guess you could say I'm looking for guidance on early season. In NC we have a solid two month bow season before gun season, and unfortunately the peak rut is in the middle of the gun season.

I have done a good deal of post season scouting for bedding areas. My findings were that bedding is generally on points and knobs. In my terrain there is a point or knob every 150 yards. Anywhere I set up I am either at a bedding area or between bedding areas. Speaking of finding high concentration of scat... I don't know what it is, but come January/February/March, I have no problem find pile upon pile of deer turds. Those same areas in October are nearly void of scat. I don't know if the cold weather preserves them, or patterns change that drastically.

Thanks for the advice on rut funnels. I've been pretty paranoid of burning spots out. I've sat in 20 different spots this year so far. Sometimes I just move 50 yards to another tree, based on my observations. What sort of funnels do you like the best?

 

[timekiller13]

Its funny, I have no issues patterning mountain deer but cannot pattern flat land deer unless there is a large food source close by. The lack of topographical changes in flat areas leaves me scratching my head. For example, one area of coastal public land I hunt is 5200 acres of swamp, hardwoods and pine, bordered by 2500 acres of more of the same. Elevation change over the entire area is 10 feet. I cannot find any discernable pattern for those deer. But, a couple of the mtn areas I hunt are thousands of acres of hardwoods. I have no issue figuring those deer out. Benches, saddles and draws are my friends. If I can find a bench on a steep mtn side, I will find a trail and I will sit on it and see deer. Also, I agree about stand burn out, its a non issue for the most part. If i find a hot spot, I will sit on it for several days. One sit doesn't tell you much about an area, but 4-5 will. Several years ago, I found an area that had all the right ingredients for a big buck. I hunted that spot 9 times in 12 days. On the 9th sit i shot a 145" 10pt.

 

[GodsCountry]

Its funny, I have no issues patterning mountain deer but cannot pattern flat land deer unless there is a large food source close by. The lack of topographical changes in flat areas leaves me scratching my head. For example, one area of coastal public land I hunt is 5200 acres of swamp, hardwoods and pine, bordered by 2500 acres of more of the same. Elevation change over the entire area is 10 feet. I cannot find any discernable pattern for those deer. But, a couple of the mtn areas I hunt are thousands of acres of hardwoods. I have no issue figuring those deer out. Benches, saddles and draws are my friends. If I can find a bench on a steep mtn side, I will find a trail and I will sit on it and see deer. Also, I agree about stand burn out, its a non issue for the most part. If i find a hot spot, I will sit on it for several days. One sit doesn't tell you much about an area, but 4-5 will. Several years ago, I found an area that had all the right ingredients for a big buck. I hunted that spot 9 times in 12 days. On the 9th sit i shot a 145" 10pt.

When you say saddles, draws, and benches, can you be more specific as to how you hunt them?

Also, do you play the wind somehow? Or sit in the same tree no matter the wind? Hunt leeward only?

When it comes to draws, I have hunted the top of draws where the erosion stops and there is a flat spot. Are you doing this, or hunting a crossing spot? I think the draws have to be really steep and rocky to really influence daytime movement.

What is your definition of a bench? Some people reference 100’ wide benches. What I see is 8 foot wide ancient logging trails or 18” wide goat trails. What qualifies a bench that you’ll sit on?

 

[ChrisS]

I don't like sitting for more than an hour or two. I prefer to track and stalk and it is most definitely not the most productive method; drives are. In the Adirondacks, bucks might not visit the same area for days or weeks. But they're usually concentrated on mountain tops. In five years of hunting this particular area, and countless miles, I've found exactly one buck bed that was a foot deep depression surrounded by rubs old and new and piles of scat. I should make my way back there again and put a camera on it. I think mountain bucks use the wind exclusively, and I try to set our drives up accordingly. If they're pushed hard, they bail off whatever cliff face there is to keep their nose in the wind. If pushed gently, they'll run their preferred routes (usually fingers and saddles), but try to veer back into the wind ASAP.

A bench is anything flat. Where I sit is usually determined by what sign I'm seeing around it. I had a camera on one bench that wasn't very wide, maybe 50', but it was the only easy access to a saddle without going 3-400 yards out of their way. I'd usually get piles of pictures every day, but rarely would I get consistent bucks until the rut started and, even then, it would rarely be the same one.

My friend and I have talked about packing in some stands before the season starts and setting them up and preparing ourselves for a weeklong sit sunup to sundown. But that method also means making the hard choice of passing on any small-ish buck early in the week in hopes that a bigger one may trot within range later. I don't know if I can do that as I might only see one buck.

For consistently killing big bucks in the ADKs, tracking is the way to go, but good snow in November is inconsistent at best these days.

 

[LateRiser]

I'd recommend reading some of the threads at the HuntingBeast forums. Dan, the guy who started that whole style of hunting, focuses on actual buck beds, and sets up often within sight of them.

Too much detail to go into here, but I started reading last year, and when I hunted big woods and mountains in Vermont this year it made a world of difference. Bucks bed in certain spots based on the wind. In hill or mountain country, they will be at the 2/3 elevation on the downwind side of the ridge. Find a little piece that juts out and is flat (ie a bench, game trail, uphill side of a large tree) and you will likely find a bed. If you can find how the buck accesses that bed (look for his trail, often very subtle, but sometimes has rubs), and have the right wind, you have a good chance of seeing him during daylight, regardless of time of year.

Anyway, it's changed how I hunt big woods - i generally know where the bucks will bed, and it proved itself a few times over a 3 day pre-rut hunt this fall. You will bump bucks doing it this way, however. But each time you learn, and it really becomes a game of sneaking as close as you can without getting busted by his nose or your noise.

I do this bowhunting exclusively. Anyway, there are a lot of guys on that site with a lot more experience with it than me, but it's a great resource.

 

[GodsCountry]

I'd recommend reading some of the threads at the HuntingBeast forums. Dan, the guy who started that whole style of hunting, focuses on actual buck beds, and sets up often within sight of them.

Too much detail to go into here, but I started reading last year, and when I hunted big woods and mountains in Vermont this year it made a world of difference. Bucks bed in certain spots based on the wind. In hill or mountain country, they will be at the 2/3 elevation on the downwind side of the ridge. Find a little piece that juts out and is flat (ie a bench, game trail, uphill side of a large tree) and you will likely find a bed. If you can find how the buck accesses that bed (look for his trail, often very subtle, but sometimes has rubs), and have the right wind, you have a good chance of seeing him during daylight, regardless of time of year.

Anyway, it's changed how I hunt big woods - i generally know where the bucks will bed, and it proved itself a few times over a 3 day pre-rut hunt this fall. You will bump bucks doing it this way, however. But each time you learn, and it really becomes a game of sneaking as close as you can without getting busted by his nose or your noise.

I do this bowhunting exclusively. Anyway, there are a lot of guys on that site with a lot more experience with it than me, but it's a great resource.

Someone made the Hunting Beast suggestion to me a year ago, and I’ve been on the Hunting Beast since then. Great, great, great stuff on there. A lot of dedicated good guys. I came here for a fresh respective, that might compliment what I’ve learned from the Hunting Beast guys.

After scouting in the snow, deer beds stand out to me like a beacon. I have no problem finding them at the 1/3 elevation. I’ve just had no luck hunting with this method alone. Dozens upon dozens of lightly used beds scattered along the top 1/3 elevation. It’s almost like finding rubs every 20 yards... it become meaningless. Plus, I think a lot of the beds you find are nighttime beds.

I have no doubt huge bucks in heavily pressured marshes reside in a solitary buck bed. I just don’t see that where I’m at.

 

[LateRiser]

Gotcha - I'm surprised it hasn't helped more. I break from the Beast style a bit in that I tend to either rattle lightly, or grunt call every 15-20 minutes. The deer i'm hunting aren't highly pressured, and it has gotten them on their feet and curious a few times.

Each time I did it, I would set up probably 100-150 yards from what I felt was the prime bedding spot based on the wind that day (ie the knob that jutted out most on the downwind side, had cover behind and clear view in front, etc.)

4 different times I had a buck that i know was in the bed I was targeting. I busted one out because I got too close on my approach (giant, mature deer and all I saw was his ass as he took off). Another responded to my rattling by snort wheezing like 8 times in a row. He never came in though, just hung upwind, refusing to come down to where I was without seeing what he heard. Another winded me - I thought I'd set up close enough to a cliff that he couldn't circle downwind, but there must have been a little that drifted to him because he took off before he got within 70 yards. And, of course, there was the 2.5 year old that came right in, and I passed on him.

Anyway, my point is that actually locating the bucks went from an impossible task to something that seemed possible, based on really paying attention to wind direction and the BEST spots based on that wind.

 

[timekiller13]

When you say saddles, draws, and benches, can you be more specific as to how you hunt them?

Also, do you play the wind somehow? Or sit in the same tree no matter the wind? Hunt leeward only?

When it comes to draws, I have hunted the top of draws where the erosion stops and there is a flat spot. Are you doing this, or hunting a crossing spot? I think the draws have to be really steep and rocky to really influence daytime movement.

What is your definition of a bench? Some people reference 100’ wide benches. What I see is 8 foot wide ancient logging trails or 18” wide goat trails. What qualifies a bench that you’ll sit on?

I quit worrying about the wind years ago. Its so variable in the mtns its nearly impossible to set up with a proper wind. I do get busted from time to time, but its rare. As for benches, any flat spot on the side of a steep hill is what I look for. Many of them are just 18-20" wide. Old logging trails are great spots as well, but they tend to be more visible to other hunters and may get pressured more.

For saddles, I like to set up on the ridge above them, looking down into the saddle. Honestly, for the most part I try not to over think anything anymore. If I find a spot that looks good and has fresh sign, I hunt it. I don't get too caught up in prevailing wind patterns, sun location, etc etc. I just hunt. So far this year I have 8 public land hunts for deer under my belt and I have seen deer each time. I've not pulled the trigger yet because I haven't seen a buck I want to haul out. I passed a decent 8pt last hunt. For the record my private lease is also very mountainous and I hunt it the same way. No bait or food plots, all big timber in steep terrain. I'm 9 for 9 in deer sightings there.

 

[SMOKYMTN]

Too much detail to go into here, but I started reading last year, and when I hunted big woods and mountains in Vermont this year it made a world of difference. Bucks bed in certain spots based on the wind. In hill or mountain country, they will be at the 2/3 elevation on the downwind side of the ridge. Find a little piece that juts out and is flat (ie a bench, game trail, uphill side of a large tree) and you will likely find a bed. If you can find how the buck accesses that bed (look for his trail, often very subtle, but sometimes has rubs), and have the right wind, you have a good chance of seeing him during daylight, regardless of time of year.

So my question is about the wind. How, in your opinion, does a buck leave and enter his bed in the mountains? Does he leave downwind and enter downwind? That could make for a long trip.

 

[LateRiser]

Depends on the bed. In the place I was talking about above, he had to enter from upwind and leave into the wind, because unless he wanted to J-hook up a sheer face he didn't have the option.

I try to find places where the buck would have an escape, but it's not a place he would choose to go through except in an emergency. That way it limits the options for how he accesses the bed. In the hills/small mountains in Vermont, there are a lot of ridges that have a very steep face on one, or even a couple, sides. I try to hunt a wind that is blowing towards on of those steep edges - often the beds are far enough out on the point of the ridge that probably 280-300 degrees around that bed is steep enough that an unpressured buck will not choose to exit down the face, but rather come back on the path he took to get there (usually a little spine or gradual slope from the top of the ridge).

 

[SMOKYMTN]

I try to find places where the buck would have an escape, but it's not a place he would choose to go through except in an emergency. That way it limits the options for how he accesses the bed. In the hills/small mountains in Vermont, there are a lot of ridges that have a very steep face on one, or even a couple, sides. I try to hunt a wind that is blowing towards on of those steep edges - often the beds are far enough out on the point of the ridge that probably 280-300 degrees around that bed is steep enough that an unpressured buck will not choose to exit down the face, but rather come back on the path he took to get there (usually a little spine or gradual slope from the top of the ridge).

I've never had an issue finding beds at points on ridges. Finding entrance and egress routes are something I do struggle with.

By reading your post I believe you are saying that a buck loves to bed where he can see below him and smell what's coming behind him, so the wind would be at his back? Does this mean that typically they will egress to their rear and follow a spur down to food sources, does or what have you and in the event of an emergency, they will just high tail it down the mountain side in front of them?

 

[LateRiser]

yup, exactly what I meant. I do know that's typical in my experience in the situations I outlined - probably not so much on gentler terrain. I think they'd prefer to hook into the bed and approach it upwind, or just circle and come all the way in from downwind, but some of those spots just won't allow it. Which is why I like them - I've found a couple of beds that have just one, clear trail into and out of them, but they are on very well-defined points with steep, steep fall offs almost all the way around. And strangely, they didn't look like much on topo maps - I found them by walking around the whole ridge, 2/3 of the way up. Little terrain differences I couldn't see until I was right there on the ground. But when I say steep, I'm talking about a drop off that you probably could not climb straight up, even on your hands and knees, and if you tried to walk down you would just slip and slide on your ass to the bottom (even if only 50-75 feet in elevation)

The hard part is, I guess they pick it because despite having limited in/out options under normal circumstances, it's really good for some other reason (cover, thermals, proximity to doe bedding, something). Usually wind - meaning it's really hard to get anywhere near if if the wind shifts or swirls. Steady wind days, early mornings with rising thermals - those are the only times a spot like that would really work I think. Set up just above, and just off the wind and hope.

 

[SMOKYMTN]

yup, exactly what I meant. I do know that's typical in my experience in the situations I outlined - probably not so much on gentler terrain. I think they'd prefer to hook into the bed and approach it upwind, or just circle and come all the way in from downwind, but some of those spots just won't allow it. Which is why I like them - I've found a couple of beds that have just one, clear trail into and out of them, but they are on very well-defined points with steep, steep fall offs almost all the way around. And strangely, they didn't look like much on topo maps - I found them by walking around the whole ridge, 2/3 of the way up. Little terrain differences I couldn't see until I was right there on the ground. But when I say steep, I'm talking about a drop off that you probably could not climb straight up, even on your hands and knees, and if you tried to walk down you would just slip and slide on your ass to the bottom (even if only 50-75 feet in elevation)

The hard part is, I guess they pick it because despite having limited in/out options under normal circumstances, it's really good for some other reason (cover, thermals, proximity to doe bedding, something). Usually wind - meaning it's really hard to get anywhere near if if the wind shifts or swirls. Steady wind days, early mornings with rising thermals - those are the only times a spot like that would really work I think. Set up just above, and just off the wind and hope.

Yep, I understand why they pick it. The bottoms are too easy for predators to access and offer little cover. Also, if something jumps you on the top it's helluva lot easier to high tail it down the mountain than it is up!

I have heard that mature bucks love the point of no return on these steep mountains. Those points on the upper 1/3rd of a ridge directly before it falls off down the steep side of the mountain. Those areas on the leeward side allow them to smell what's coming off the ridge behind them and smell the rising thermals below, and they love to move in this column.

The hardest part for me is figuring out how and when they're accessing these areas and where you could ambush them.

 

[LateRiser]

Not sure if this will work, but this is a map I made of the actual buck beds I found in the spot I was talking about in Vermont this year. The red dot at the northern end is where I jumped a giant out of his bed. The other two red dots at the bottom were used while I was there, based on sign, but I didn't see a deer there (I actually found those by accident, thinking the terrain was wrong based on topo).

The blue dots are all the other buck beds I found, but are those that there's no way to pin down the in/out of the buck. Just a flat spot, with some cover, but almost 360 degrees of access. The red dots are those that were right on the edge of dropoffs, but it just doesn't show on the map.

Anyway, first day, with a wind out of the south, the bed at the the red dot at the northern end held a buck, but I didn't know at the time exactly where the bed was. I came up the ridge from the northeast, but jumped him about 100 yards further down the ridge than I was expecting to see a bed. He was actually right where I was thinking about hanging a stand, and neither of us was aware of the other until I was about 20 yards from him.

He took off and I walked right to the bed to figure out why he was there. It was a little bench that stuck out into a dense pine thicket that covered the entire north facing slope in front of him, and that slope is probably 60 degrees or more. Sheer face to the west, that looped in just south of the bed. Only access was straight east, but there was a big blowdown there (which is how I got to within 20 yards without being seen), or southeast, which is where he bolted.

Way more beds that I COULDN"T figure out where to set up, or where they might enter and exit. So I'm lost on a east or west wind in this spot. But if there's a steady Northwest or Southeast wind, I know where I'll be.