Paradox Evolution pack frames????

[hammer0419]

Anyone who has one. Good, bad, so-so? Would like to hear some thoughts and opinions. Considering trying one for weekend camping and hunting. Thanks

 

[darcytribe]

Not any experience here with them but was looking very hard at them. The frame and suspension sound terrific but the pack bag design and materials in the end steamed me to an Eco which is also getting terrific reviews.

 

[hammer0419]

I agree on their pack bag. I have no interest in their pack bags. Curious about the frame. If the frame was all that. I would find a pack I could adapt to it.

 

[Rossi]

Hammer,
You know my thoughts on the frame. I ran just the frame and talon for most archery season this year until I picked up the 1850 bag. That combo worked well enough for me that I was going to go that route until I saw an 1850 come at a good price. Now I use the 1850 instead of the talon, but they serve a similar purpose - a place for my water bladder and a small amount of gear with the ability to put a heavy load between the frame and bag.

 

[darcytribe]

Rossi it sounds like you used it as a daypack. One question I was wondering about was shooting my bow with a frame like theirs, running so close to the shoulders. Did you find it interfered at all when you shoot? Also, did you have an opportunity to use it to haul out a heavy load?

 

[Rossi]

It does not interfere while shooting because of the way the frame is articulated at the bottom. The frame moves with your shoulders very well. I have not had a chance to use the pack to pack a heavy load in the field, but I did use it last summer for training. I carried 60-70 lbs of sand during training hikes and it felt very comfortable to me. I have not tried a Kifaru, Stone Glacier, or other top of the line pack, but it was much better than the Blue Widow that I had previously used for the past 10 years, for what that's worth. I actually thought the BW carried fairly well at these weights, but this pack is much better. I'm not the type to carry more than 80-90 lbs except over very short distances, so I can't comment on extremely heavy loads (over 100 lbs).

 

[Rossi]

And yes, most of my hunting is from a base camp or day hunts, that is what I bought the pack for. I wanted to be able to carry out a load on the first trip out with the same day pack. In this mode, it is very lightweight with the ability to carry a heavy load.

 

[darcytribe]

thanks, appreciate the info!

 

[AXEL]

I agree on their pack bag. I have no interest in their pack bags. Curious about the frame. If the frame was all that. I would find a pack I could adapt to it.

Darcy and Hammer, would you please post details as to why you do not care for the Paradox packbags?

 

[hammer0419]

I don't care for them strictly because I prefer pockets and lots of organization. Im not a fan of the one big expensive sack on a frame? Thats just me as some do prefer it.

 

[darcytribe]

I'm still searching for the "perfect pack for me". I've tried the MR crew cab with a nice frame, & the Kifaru Highcamp 7000 with a bikini frame. The crew cab was veratile but the lack of load lifter assistance about wrecked my shoulders with a heavy haul out. the highcamp is basically a big empty bag with no other organizational features. The highcamp is great bag for what it is, but I too found It was irritating to have to dig around in it for stuff. The exo has so many different organizational features AND apparently also has a really good frame/suspension. I believe the fabric used in the exo will prove to also be quieter than what parradox is currently using and since I use my pack on my back while hunting, that's also important to me. The frame and suspension on the paradox to me though sounded ideal and I'm still quite intrigued by it..

 

[Kevin_t]

Actually we don't have a lot of org but to say it's one big pack bag isn't really correct. The Lid has two pockets, the base Talon has two pockets, the pack bag has two bottle pockets, and optional side zip which is great for a spotter and the bottle pockets work well for tripod and a lot of other uses. A relatively vanilla setup of lid and Talon is 7 chambers. Some of the fabrics can be noisier and some are pretty similar to standard Cordura (multi cam is a waterproof Cordura faced fabric ) .
I will agree we don't have a ton of pockets but we have as many as a lot of other packs. To me , I can't see needing any other pockets other than possibly a dedicated spotter pocket.

 

[Bighorse]

Don't worry Kevin. I appreciate the beauty of your simple bag design. I just want to get out a snack and water followed by another layer when needed. Other than that, no matter the pack when I make camp it's time for a gear bomb. I'll compartmentalize with ancillary dry bags.

 

[hammer0419]

Its all good. Everyone has different tastes and style.

 

[darcytribe]

I should qualify again that I have never even seen a Paradox pack so my comments are in a sense "ignorant" and should be taken with a several grains of salt. All I have to go by is reviews on both the exo and the paradox packs. I'm trying the exo first but I may very well end up with a paradox in the end! It's so nice that we have several choices to meet our own particular needs in a pack AND so many great companies that go out of their way in customer satisfaction. And this is a forum full of kind and helpful people that don't mind helping each other out. Having my own little love-fest here

 

[Jared Lampton]

I haven't used Kifaru, SG, Exo or MR so I can't make a comparison but for me the evo frame has been excellent. It is a very different design; more similar to an external frame pack than the others. I was amazed by how comfortable the evo was with heavy loads. The heaviest load I packed with it was probably just over 90 lbs for about 7 miles. I really had zero discomfort associated with the way the pack fit or carried. I just felt really tired. I would carry that much or more weight on that frame in a heartbeat. Cant say enough good about the load hauling capabilities of the frame. To me, the ability to adjust the frame height is a game changer.

For me, the talon and water bottle pockets are enough organizational space and I still have a monster main bag to dump a bunch of meat and camp into if needed.
That said, I am adapting a much smaller and much quieter bag from an old pack of mine for the Evo frame. It will be for day hunts and light and fast overnighters mainly for elk in brushy places where I'll be hunting with the pack on and noise is more of a concern. I will be able to pack meat between the bag and the frame. I'll post some pics of it when its done.

Good luck with your decision. Nice to have so many great options to choose from!

-Jared Lampton

 

[hammer0419]

Thanks for your thoughts Jared.

 

[kickemall]

What I liked - The adjustable frame. The great load lifters. The ease of adjusting the harness for torso length. The one piece belt which I thought was awesome (never had to really crank it down to keep it from slipping even at heavy weights).The Xpac material (a little noisier than cordura but I shot quite a few hogs with my bow while it was on my back and noise never seemed to be an issue) which I love because its waterproof and wish more manufacturers would use it, I think the Talon is pretty innovative and works well. Kevin and Nathan are great at customer service and helped me with a few glitches that I was to ignorant to figure out myself.

What I didn't like - I hated the lid. It never seemed to integrate to the pack and frame and when I had it on I couldn't use the upper, over the top straps on the bag. Because there is no solid frame sheet I had to be careful how I loaded things or they would press into my back. This was especially bad when loaded with sacks of gravel for training hikes. I could never get the shoulder straps comfortable, even with 30-50 lb. loads. Load lifters work fantastic but for whatever reason the straps dug in. I also didn't care for how the bottom of the bag rides so low. When I talked to Nathan about that he said it was designed to put all the weight on your hips, which it does, but it almost makes the bottom of the bag not functional because I had to compress it off to keep the load up in the middle of my back. I had a 6300 bag which is huge so maybe a smaller bag would remedy this. I always thought that the bottom material that attached to the Talon should come inside the bottom of the frame and be adjustable (like an adjustable load shelf) so it was easier to keep the bag and load higher but, I have no idea how or if that is possible. I'm also a pocket guy but between the lid and talon there were plenty for me. I'd like to see a dedicated water bladder compartment although I see one of the Talons is designed for that now.

For reference I've owned numerous backpacking packs and the following - a Dana Designs Arcflex Astralplane, an older custom McHale, Kuiu Ultra, and Kuiu Icon Pro.
I had the Kuius and Paradox at the same time and would trade off each day for training hikes/ hog hunts. I had over 100 lbs. (on a scale) in the Paradox a couple times but never for more than a mile. It handled it well except for what I stated above. Anyway, those are my thoughts and packs are like most things, everybody likes different things and packs work differently for different people.

 

[darcytribe]

" Anyway, those are my thoughts and packs are like most things, everybody likes different things and packs work differently for different people."

Well said- that's the long and short of it... Find what works best for you in your context of use.

 

[Kevin_t]

What I liked - The adjustable frame. The great load lifters. The ease of adjusting the harness for torso length. The one piece belt which I thought was awesome (never had to really crank it down to keep it from slipping even at heavy weights).The Xpac material (a little noisier than cordura but I shot quite a few hogs with my bow while it was on my back and noise never seemed to be an issue) which I love because its waterproof and wish more manufacturers would use it, I think the Talon is pretty innovative and works well. Kevin and Nathan are great at customer service and helped me with a few glitches that I was to ignorant to figure out myself.

What I didn't like - I hated the lid. It never seemed to integrate to the pack and frame and when I had it on I couldn't use the upper, over the top straps on the bag. Because there is no solid frame sheet I had to be careful how I loaded things or they would press into my back. This was especially bad when loaded with sacks of gravel for training hikes. I could never get the shoulder straps comfortable, even with 30-50 lb. loads. Load lifters work fantastic but for whatever reason the straps dug in. I also didn't care for how the bottom of the bag rides so low. When I talked to Nathan about that he said it was designed to put all the weight on your hips, which it does, but it almost makes the bottom of the bag not functional because I had to compress it off to keep the load up in the middle of my back. I had a 6300 bag which is huge so maybe a smaller bag would remedy this. I always thought that the bottom material that attached to the Talon should come inside the bottom of the frame and be adjustable (like an adjustable load shelf) so it was easier to keep the bag and load higher but, I have no idea how or if that is possible. I'm also a pocket guy but between the lid and talon there were plenty for me. I'd like to see a dedicated water bladder compartment although I see one of the Talons is designed for that now.

For reference I've owned numerous backpacking packs and the following - a Dana Designs Arcflex Astralplane, an older custom McHale, Kuiu Ultra, and Kuiu Icon Pro.
I had the Kuius and Paradox at the same time and would trade off each day for training hikes/ hog hunts. I had over 100 lbs. (on a scale) in the Paradox a couple times but never for more than a mile. It handled it well except for what I stated above. Anyway, those are my thoughts and packs are like most things, everybody likes different things and packs work differently for different people.

What I liked - The adjustable frame. The great load lifters. The ease of adjusting the harness for torso length. The one piece belt which I thought was awesome (never had to really crank it down to keep it from slipping even at heavy weights).The Xpac material (a little noisier than cordura but I shot quite a few hogs with my bow while it was on my back and noise never seemed to be an issue) which I love because its waterproof and wish more manufacturers would use it, I think the Talon is pretty innovative and works well. Kevin and Nathan are great at customer service and helped me with a few glitches that I was to ignorant to figure out myself.

What I didn't like - I hated the lid. It never seemed to integrate to the pack and frame and when I had it on I couldn't use the upper, over the top straps on the bag. Because there is no solid frame sheet I had to be careful how I loaded things or they would press into my back. This was especially bad when loaded with sacks of gravel for training hikes. I could never get the shoulder straps comfortable, even with 30-50 lb. loads. Load lifters work fantastic but for whatever reason the straps dug in. I also didn't care for how the bottom of the bag rides so low. When I talked to Nathan about that he said it was designed to put all the weight on your hips, which it does, but it almost makes the bottom of the bag not functional because I had to compress it off to keep the load up in the middle of my back. I had a 6300 bag which is huge so maybe a smaller bag would remedy this. I always thought that the bottom material that attached to the Talon should come inside the bottom of the frame and be adjustable (like an adjustable load shelf) so it was easier to keep the bag and load higher but, I have no idea how or if that is possible. I'm also a pocket guy but between the lid and talon there were plenty for me. I'd like to see a dedicated water bladder compartment although I see one of the Talons is designed for that now.

For reference I've owned numerous backpacking packs and the following - a Dana Designs Arcflex Astralplane, an older custom McHale, Kuiu Ultra, and Kuiu Icon Pro.
I had the Kuius and Paradox at the same time and would trade off each day for training hikes/ hog hunts. I had over 100 lbs. (on a scale) in the Paradox a couple times but never for more than a mile. It handled it well except for what I stated above. Anyway, those are my thoughts and packs are like most things, everybody likes different things and packs work differently for different people.

I think several of those issues have been resolved or have a workaround
- Lid , I much prefer the new Multi Lid, while smaller it is much more aesthetically pleasing. To use the over the top and lid at the same time takes a bit of monkeying around, but the great thing is the multi lid is easy to deploy as a chesty unit so they don't compete for similar function
- Load control on a big bag - We added an attachment on the center of the talon for the OTT strap, which gives a vertical tension to compression and helps keep loads higher. There are also some differences between Evo and Unaweep. The Unaweep the bag goes up as you increase height naturally keeping the load higher. This is probably a benefit for load, but some prefer the ability to keep a bag close to the bottom of the frame like an EVO. It is individual desires here
- Harness , some earlier harnesses this was a common complaint , I think it has mostly been addressed in newer harnesses as very few people have made this comment the last several months
- Hydration , we can do custom ports if desired and retrofit older bags as well. For awhile , we offered it as an option, but less than 3 % of customers purchased it so we do it on a case by case basis. I will admit , I am not a hydo fan, and neither are any of our people involved in pack design. I do carry water sometimes though, or use hydration just to revisit my thoughts. I mostly run a hose out the roll top, its pretty easy when I do have some sort of hydro.
- Thee are ways to close of the bottom of pack bags above the bottle pockets to keep load higher as well.
- Lack of frame sheet , the simplest way is to cut a blue foam pad from walmart to fit in the pack bag or between pack bag and frame. For some , it is an issue for others it is not. We should have a more elegant solution for that soon. It will add a little weight and might bring the weight of some common configurations up to around 4 lbs when using a heavier duty fabric.

Kevin