Paper Tuning/Sight Adjustment Help

[Rodéo]

Recently bought a used Xpedite and just getting around to setting it up and tuning it.

Set up @ 28 in. 65 lb limbs maxed out.

Set up some 340 FMJ's with a total weight of 538-546 (depending on fletching). 160 grains up front total.

I'm getting what looks like bullet holes with the 4 fletch blazer and max hunter's. The 3 fletch max hunter didn't look quite right.
See Pics: 1st pic: 4 fletch blaser; 2nd pic: 4 fletch max hunter on top ; 3rd pic: 3 fletch max hunter at the top, 4blaser under that, then 4 max hunter below that.

Questions:

1. I'm relatively new to tuning so forgive me for the ignorance but are the pictures I posted below sufficient "bullet holes" to move on to the next step? Or do I still have some tweaking to do before I move on?

2. I ran out of right adjustment on my MBG black gold mountain lite. Shooting about 4-5 inches right at 12 yards and I don't want to adjust the rest if the paper tune is good.

Help appreciated.

 

[Billy Goat]

Are the results repeatable? You want to make sure it's consistent. A little bit if difference in grip can really change things.

I'm not familiar with that cam system but I generally set center shot on a bow and then shim or twist yokes.

The pictures don't look bad however I'm not certain they aren't all showing a little nock high. Honestly I don't worry much with paper. I'll bareshaft tune at minimum of 20 yards if not further, then just go to broadhead tuning. Ultimately that's what I care about, where my broadheads hit in relation to my fps.

 

[Samdemarais]

From my personal experience those bullet holes look pretty good. I would screw on some fixed blade broadheads and see how they group with field points and make and fine tune adjustments there. Google “gold tip paper tuning” for a whole series on tuning from Tim Gillingham.
In regards to your sight, you should be able to detach the sight housing and move it over to another screw hole to make a big left right adjustment and then use micro wind age adjustment from there. At least that’s how most sights are built.

 

[Rodéo]

Are the results repeatable? You want to make sure it's consistent. A little bit if difference in grip can really change things.

I'm not familiar with that cam system but I generally set center shot on a bow and then shim or twist yokes.

The pictures don't look bad however I'm not certain they aren't all showing a little nock high. Honestly I don't worry much with paper. I'll bareshaft tune at minimum of 20 yards if not further, then just go to broadhead tuning. Ultimately that's what I care about, where my broadheads hit in relation to my fps.

Thanks for the response. Yes these are the results I've consistently been getting over a few days of shooting through paper. Cam system is the Evolve cam, so there's tons of info out there on tuning, etc.

I'll start bareshaft tuning after this, just wanted to make sure I wasn't getting ahead of myself.
Main concern at this point is getting around the lack of right windage adjustment.

From my personal experience those bullet holes look pretty good. I would screw on some fixed blade broadheads and see how they group with field points and make and fine tune adjustments there. Google “gold tip paper tuning” for a whole series on tuning from Tim Gillingham.
In regards to your sight, you should be able to detach the sight housing and move it over to another screw hole to make a big left right adjustment and then use micro wind age adjustment from there. At least that’s how most sights are built.

I'll get out and broadhead tune later this week. Hopefully they all hit together and I don't have a lot of tweaking to do.
I'll try what you said with the sight. Not sure if I have room to mount it more to the right but I'll take a look and try.

 

[Sobrbiker]

What did the MBG come off of? They have two sets of holes where scope body mounts to mount/dovetail. It may have been set in the left holes if it was on an Elite or Mathews previously.
I know I ran out of “left” on my Elite and had to move mine, maybe yours is already in the “left” holes and you don’t need it there.

This link explains their setup:

Help! I need more left windage on my Black Gold sight!

Rob from S&S Archery walks you through getting more left windage from your Black Gold sight. Try this before you purchase an XL Windage bar!

blog.sandsarchery.com

 

[Zac]

Your three fletch looked like a nock high left tear. I would cut the fletchings off a shaft and see what the bare shaft looks like. You are using some crazy steering on those four fletches. Depending on the distance you are shooting it may be correcting extremely quickly. So try some varying distances. Start at 6 feet and work your way back to about 21 feet with your bare shaft. Once your bareshaft is flying perfectly then you can make some minor tweaks for your fletched shafts if needed. To fix the three fletch tear you would move your rest up slightly. You could also move ever so slightly with your rest to the left, or try shimming to the right.

Also is your rest currently at center shot? How is your arrow in relation to the berger hole? This may explain your sight situation. You may need to start all over again. Good place to begin is 13/16 off the riser and your arrow running straight through the berger.

 

[Rodéo]

What did the MBG come off of? They have two sets of holes where scope body mounts to mount/dovetail. It may have been set in the left holes if it was on an Elite or Mathews previously.
I know I ran out of “left” on my Elite and had to move mine, maybe yours is already in the “left” holes and you don’t need it there.

This link explains their setup:

Help! I need more left windage on my Black Gold sight!

Rob from S&S Archery walks you through getting more left windage from your Black Gold sight. Try this before you purchase an XL Windage bar!

blog.sandsarchery.com

Thanks! I think this should help! The sight came off of a PSE Stinger X. I can't mount it any further to the right than it already is but I'll try the s&s trick and see if it works.

 

[Rodéo]

Your three fletch looked like a nock high left tear. I would cut the fletchings off a shaft and see what the bare shaft looks like. You are using some crazy steering on those four fletches. Depending on the distance you are shooting it may be correcting extremely quickly. So try some varying distances. Start at 6 feet and work your way back to about 21 feet with your bare shaft. Once your bareshaft is flying perfectly then you can make some minor tweaks for your fletched shafts if needed. To fix the three fletch tear you would move your rest up slightly. You could also move ever so slightly with your rest to the left, or try shimming to the right.

Also is your rest currently at center shot? How is your arrow in relation to the berger hole? This may explain your sight situation. You may need to start all over again. Good place to begin is 13/16 off the riser and your arrow running straight through the berger.

The rest looks to at center shot and the arrow goes straight through the berger hole.

Just shot a bareshaft through paper and got some very interesting results. Pretty severe nock high and right tear. Anything I can/should do to my arrow set up to get the best tune out of this bow? I have some options with 340 FMJ's, 260 Axis (uncut), and 340 GT Hunter's. I'm also willing to play around with different insert weights and point weights.

What does the tear I'm getting say about my spine?

Pics of bareshaft FMJ 340 (50 grain insert, 10 grain collar, 100 grain point):

 

[Samdemarais]

The rest looks to at center shot and the arrow goes straight through the berger hole.

Just shot a bareshaft through paper and got some very interesting results. Pretty severe nock high and right tear. Anything I can/should do to my arrow set up to get the best tune out of this bow? I have some options with 340 FMJ's, 260 Axis (uncut), and 340 GT Hunter's. I'm also willing to play around with different insert weights and point weights.

What does the tear I'm getting say about my spine?

Pics of bareshaft FMJ 340 (50 grain insert, 10 grain collar, 100 grain point):

Unless those pictures are upside down that’s a low left tear. Drop rest down 1/32 of an inch. Just play around with point weights, buying different weight field points is easy. Or you can change your poundage by adjusting limb bolts to manipulate the spine? Do you have archers advantage software, running your arrow setup through there is a great way to get your spine dialed in.

 

[Zac]

I agree that it looks low left but I can't tell for sure. Get some lipstick and apply it to the point and reshoot. The left tear is a weak tear so here are your options.
1. Timing has to be on. This could be why your nock low. If it checks out, move the rest down or move your loop up. Also make sure you don't have nock pinch. Low tears are famous for that.
2. Add weight to the back of the shaft. You can check the effectiveness of this by wrapping tape around the shaft until you achieve the same weight as the fletchings you are using. Another option is a lighted nock.
3. Lower your bow poundage incrementally until you ring that tear back to the right.
4. Decrease point weight.
5. Use a bow press to move additional shims to the right.

 

[Hsprouls]

Your three fletch looked like a nock high left tear. I would cut the fletchings off a shaft and see what the bare shaft looks like. You are using some crazy steering on those four fletches. Depending on the distance you are shooting it may be correcting extremely quickly. So try some varying distances. Start at 6 feet and work your way back to about 21 feet with your bare shaft. Once your bareshaft is flying perfectly then you can make some minor tweaks for your fletched shafts if needed. To fix the three fletch tear you would move your rest up slightly. You could also move ever so slightly with your rest to the left, or try shimming to the right.

Also is your rest currently at center shot? How is your arrow in relation to the berger hole? This may explain your sight situation. You may need to start all over again. Good place to begin is 13/16 off the riser and your arrow running straight through the berger.

Bare shaft tuning is so important

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

How long is that arrow youre shooting?

Have you checked level on your riser then checked level on your arrow, which is running through the berger hole?

 

[Rodéo]

How long is that arrow your shooting?

28.5 CTC.

I've been bareshaft tuning and to say I'm learning a lot is an understatement. Now I know what people mean when they say shorter brace heights are "less forgiving". I fixed the vertical tear with the baresharft but now I'm going back and forth between left and right tears with the occasional bullet hole but I can rarely get it to repeat.
Makes me think it's a grip issue & getting used to a new bow with a really short brace height (5 1/4").

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

Yeah, thatd do it.
From what I can see your shaft is leaning on the weak side. But if you went to a 300 it would be "too stiff". A 340 at 27" is optimal. 27.5 is optimal on the weak side. I've always gone stiffer over weaker.
Thought you want to know.

 

[Hsprouls]

28.5 CTC.

I've been bareshaft tuning and to say I'm learning a lot is an understatement. Now I know what people mean when they say shorter brace heights are "less forgiving". I fixed the vertical tear with the baresharft but now I'm going back and forth between left and right tears with the occasional bullet hole but I can rarely get it to repeat.
Makes me think it's a grip issue & getting used to a new bow with a really short brace height (5 1/4").

When you draw back, look up your string and make sure it’s even left and right and going straight into the cam. You might be torquing and not know it.

 

[Zac]

28.5 CTC.

I've been bareshaft tuning and to say I'm learning a lot is an understatement. Now I know what people mean when they say shorter brace heights are "less forgiving". I fixed the vertical tear with the baresharft but now I'm going back and forth between left and right tears with the occasional bullet hole but I can rarely get it to repeat.
Makes me think it's a grip issue & getting used to a new bow with a really short brace height (5 1/4").

May not be grip as well. First of all you can try turning your nocks. If that doesn't work, simply replace all the nocks. Nocks bend all the time, and you will never get a bullet with one that is slightly off. Some target shooters replace their nocks every day during Vegas.

 

[Beendare]

Good on you OP to nail this down.

Isn't it interesting that you are getting bullet holes with fletched FP's.....and then bare shafts are garbage?

Just think how many bowhunters have crap BH arrow flight - they just screw on a mech head because they think it will fly like their FP's.......

 

[SlickStickSlinger]

Good on you OP to nail this down.

Isn't it interesting that you are getting bullet holes with fletched FP's.....and then bare shafts are garbage?

Just think how many bowhunters have crap BH arrow flight - they just screw on a mech head because they think it will fly like their FP's.......

I met a guy recently at the range and he proceeded to tell me a long story how he wouldnt worry about shooting a single broadhead before going out to hunt. Then he tells me how he shot at an animal with a mechanical and his arrow in his words, took a complete right turn.

I could hardly believe it.

So yes, good on rod for not only having the desire to learn more about the craft but to hunt what I consider to be ethically by taking the time to fine tune a little bit.

Another recent headshaker. Someone I work with told me last week the guy at the pro shop asked if she was shooting broadheads while practicing (she has an out of state hunt coming up) She said no?...
So she asks me at work if she should and why....

 

[Hsprouls]

May not be grip as well. First of all you can try turning your nocks. If that doesn't work, simply replace all the nocks. Nocks bend all the time, and you will never get a bullet with one that is slightly off. Some target shooters replace their nocks every day during Vegas.

Anyone have a recommendation on the most reliable lighted nicks?

 

[Zac]

Anyone have a recommendation on the most reliable lighted nicks?

Firenock