Painless load development (mine)

waldo9190

WKR
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
313
Location
Minnesota
ItemDealerPrice
Summit Single Stage PressRCBS$269.99
Electronic Powder DispenserRCBS$299.99
6.5cm DiesRCBS$42.99
.223 DiesRCBS$42.99
Hand Priming ToolRCBS$72.99
Powder FunnelRCBS$5.99
Hornady OneShot DynaGlideCabelas$14.99
Hornady Digital CalipersScheels$39.99
RCBS Case TrimmerRCBS$129.99
$919.91

Here's a spreadsheet with links with what's been discussed above for anyone interested. Did this for myself as a way to budget over the next few months, but figured it might help someone else too.
Don't be afraid to keep an eye out for used equipment as well. That is how I got started in reloading and I purchased my Lee cast press, my RCBS 505 scale, and my Lyman case trimmer in used but good condition. I doubt new equipment would gain me anything in terms of accuracy (600 and in) in a hunting rifle/load.

Equipment wise I'm all in for less than $500 not including dies/consumables.
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
988
Location
Fairbanks, Alaska
Don't be afraid to keep an eye out for used equipment as well. That is how I got started in reloading and I purchased my Lee cast press, my RCBS 505 scale, and my Lyman case trimmer in used but good condition. I doubt new equipment would gain me anything in terms of accuracy (600 and in) in a hunting rifle/load.

Equipment wise I'm all in for less than $500 not including dies/consumables.
That's good advice. Any particular places that you'd recommend to watch for used reloading equipment?
 
Joined
Jan 28, 2017
Messages
971
MidwayUSA has a good sale on RCBS equipment right now. I built myself a simplified system last month. I bought a Partner Press ($92 Midway) and a Quick Change Powder Measure ($88 Midway) last month to simplify my process and reload at home.

Not as helpful, but I know I had a random outdoor mailer for Hornady reloading equipment on sale as well this month.
 

waldo9190

WKR
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
313
Location
Minnesota
That's good advice. Any particular places that you'd recommend to watch for used reloading equipment?
Mainly ebay, but my LGS will actually take in used reloading equipment on trade as well, which was nice as I could see stuff in person before purchasing.

What are you looking to get out of reloading? Hunting/target loads tailored to your rifle(s), volume, a bit of both?
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2016
Messages
988
Location
Fairbanks, Alaska
Mainly ebay, but my LGS will actually take in used reloading equipment on trade as well, which was nice as I could see stuff in person before purchasing.

What are you looking to get out of reloading? Hunting/target loads tailored to your rifle(s), volume, a bit of both?
You nailed it. I've chopped all my barrels down to 18.5" to account for a suppressor and have started shooting PRS matches lately and want to continue. I'm looking to gain a bit more speed with handloads, shoot more, and reduce my long-term ammo costs.
 

SouthPaw

WKR
Joined
Apr 10, 2014
Messages
836
Location
Northern CA
Definitely look for deals. I started with a Hornady lock-n load kit that was 50% off plus additional savings with Cabela's club. Amazon had the Rock Chucker 50% off a few weeks ago. I also picked up a lot of used stuff from friends who reload and were upgrading. Save as much as you can on tools because components are going to be the tough/expensive part.
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2018
Messages
549
No. It has no issues effect on performance.




Correct. I do not trim, however as I said I lose brass before it becomes an issue generally. A case trimmer is easy enough that if trimming becomes necessary (read- the case doesn’t chamber) it doesn’t take long to do so. However I’d rather shoot Winchester brass and not worry when I lose it then fiddle with inconsequential things just to get a couple more firings out of it.
So your reloading process is

hornady one shot
Deprime/resize
Prime
Powder
Seat bullet
?
 
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
929
Dirty brass straight out of the rifle, neck size using lee collet die, no lube, prime, powder dump seat bullet, shoot, repeat.
Better than inch easy
 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 28, 2020
Messages
929
Actually I am using a bushing neck die and TiNi bushing in that video, once again no lube, gone to collet dies as I like them better
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
2,731
@Formidilosus ... Heading to the range today to find a load but only have 1 powder and bullet. I'll find max, then drop 0.5gr for 10rounds. If the 10 rounds suck, should I first change charge weight by 1gr or should I try changing the seating depth significantly, say by 0.050?
 

ID_Matt

WKR
Joined
May 16, 2017
Messages
1,555
Location
Southern ID
ItemDealerPrice
Summit Single Stage PressRCBS$269.99
Electronic Powder DispenserRCBS$299.99
6.5cm DiesRCBS$42.99
.223 DiesRCBS$42.99
Hand Priming ToolRCBS$72.99
Powder FunnelRCBS$5.99
Hornady OneShot DynaGlideCabelas$14.99
Hornady Digital CalipersScheels$39.99
RCBS Case TrimmerRCBS$129.99
$919.91

Here's a spreadsheet with links with what's been discussed above for anyone interested. Did this for myself as a way to budget over the next few months, but figured it might help someone else too.
Small items, but I would add a chamfer/debur tool, shell holders, and a loading block to set the cases in.
 
OP
Formidilosus

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
10,126
@Formidilosus ... Heading to the range today to find a load but only have 1 powder and bullet. I'll find max, then drop 0.5gr for 10rounds. If the 10 rounds suck, should I first change charge weight by 1gr or should I try changing the seating depth significantly, say by 0.050?

If it’s sucks- change bullet or powder. You won’t get a truly sucky load to shoot well by a tenth grain of powder, and even if you did it would just be a fussy load.
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2020
Messages
2,731
If it’s sucks- change bullet or powder. You won’t get a truly sucky load to shoot well by a tenth grain of powder, and even if you did it would just be a fussy load.

I should have been more specific. Let's say I want 1moa but it's at 1.25 or 1.5. I mentioned changing powder by 1.0 gr not 0.1gr. I definitely don't want a picky load
 
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
2,512
I have been working to simplify my reloading process as well. Have seen zero I’ll effects from accuracy standpoint.

Current equipment/load process

Lapua brass (makes life easier)
Prime
Powder charge with uniflow dispenser and rcbs 505 scale
Seat (rcbs single stage press)
Shoot

Deprime (Lee universal decapper)
Hornady one shot
Resize with minimal shoulder bump, .002-.004. Set the die up once and leave it for the life of brass (currently using bushing dies with decap stem removed)
Prime (hand primer saves time)
Powder charge
Seat bullet


I have found that when you have the right bullet/powder combo for a particular barrel, finding a good load is easy. All the neck turning/primer seating depth/cleaning brass/etc etc has not given me a measurable benefit and just takes more time.
 
OP
Formidilosus

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
10,126
I should have been more specific. Let's say I want 1moa but it's at 1.25 or 1.5. I mentioned changing powder by 1.0 gr not 0.1gr. I definitely don't want a picky load

Apologies for the misspeak in my part.

For a broad part pressure is velocity, which is what makes a load “shoot” or not. The ES across 1gr for lots of loads will be in the same pressure range of 1gr lower or higher. If a rifle didn’t shoot well at 1gr lower than what I want, I don’t want it.
 

Bbell12

WKR
Joined
Mar 3, 2018
Messages
362
Apologies for the misspeak in my part.

For a broad part pressure is velocity, which is what makes a load “shoot” or not. The ES across 1gr for lots of loads will be in the same pressure range of 1gr lower or higher. If a rifle didn’t shoot well at 1gr lower than what I want, I don’t want it.
How often have you had to change powder or bullet due to it not meeting your standard (percent failure rate)? And how much of that do you attribute to the gun just not being a “shooter” or it just not like the bullet/powder combo?

Thanks
 

Hondo64d

Lil-Rokslider
Joined
Dec 6, 2016
Messages
252
Location
The Big Country
Are we talking actual “science”, or we talking “The Science ™️“?

Yes, velocity variation has an effect. However, if your high round count groups (10+) are acceptable size at whatever your distance is, why does it matter what your SD/ES is? In other words if you are grouping at distance, than the grouping is taking care of the variation. If you’re doing endless load playing at 100 yards, you’re just hoping that small SD/ES translates to small groups at range.

To that point though, all guns that I can remember that have grouped well for high round counts at 100, have done so at 300, which have done so at 800.




Not really. By the time annealing comes in, the barrels shot out or the brass is lost. 3-4 firings and I’m generally done with it for whatever reason. I don’t get into the psycho brass hording thing either




Sure they will, but not like a lot of people believe. We miss due to the largest source of error. Or I should say our hit rate is determined by the largest sources of error. Rarely (almost never?) is that velocity ES outside of a benchrest. Dudes aren’t missing due to an ES of 30 versus an ES of 10. They’re missing due to not calling wind correctly, flinching, incorrect zero, loss of zero, optic not tracking, poor positional shooting ability, etc, etc.





From what I’ve seen it can be real, but people are kidding themselves by doing so with one round. It’s the same BS about getting velocity SD or ES off of 5-10 rounds. That’s just a joke.





Hit rate for the task. The target is deer sized game out to 800m. So a 12” target at 800m. That is calculated with Applied Ballistics WEZ. Putting all variables in, reducing groups size below that has a very marginal effect on hit rate in the field, but a very large time and component cost.






There’s enough work for correct BC numbers now that if AB, Hornady, etc. put it out then it’s very close generally and closer than one can measure just by shooting.



How are you sure your velocity is completely correct? I would not trust a chrono average with less than 30 shots back to back. How do you know your adjustments are tracking at exactly .1 Mil or .25 moa for the entire range you use it at? Do you know that the scope does so with live rounds through recoil instead of just static texting? How do you know that you don’t have a slight updraft or down draft on the way to the target?

Point being that it takes relatively large variations in BC to make considerable changes to elevation inside of terminal ranges (1,800’ish FPS for an average), yet relatively little MV error to create the same elevation change. Biggest spruce of error= MV, not BC for any good bullet. Now if you’re shooting bullets with widely inflated BC’s (looking at you Hammer), then yeah, everything is kind of a guess. But much like shooting Tikka/Sako, I skip all the nonsense and drama by shooting bullets that are known performers.

Even with all that, the base reason I generally adjust MV and not BC is because it works. I have zero issues zeroing, trueing at distance, and then going anywhere in the country and getting first round, elevation correct impacts doing so, without ever chronoing the gun/ammo. I’m not into the dork crap- the gun is a means to an end, not the end, and I want the path that gets me to that end the quickest and surest.
I do it pretty much the same way. I can’t remember the last time I got the chrono out. I make an educated guess on velocity based on load data. I use BCs Litz has derived, if available. If not, I use manufacturer’s BC. Get a good 100 yard zero then go right to my 900 yard target. I use the velocity truing function in Ballistic AE. You simply put in the difference between POI and POA and the software corrects the velocity to marry the two up. I have never not had the data line up after that.

John
 
OP
Formidilosus

Formidilosus

Super Moderator
Shoot2HuntU
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
10,126
How often have you had to change powder or bullet due to it not meeting your standard (percent failure rate)? And how much of that do you attribute to the gun just not being a “shooter” or it just not like the bullet/powder combo?

Thanks

Hasn’t happened in over a decade. Since I stopped shooting finicky guns. On just personal rifles that’s 18-20 for me alone. Lots of no things go into that- forgiving rifles with good barrels, scopes that work, mounted correctly, and I do not lie to myself with random 3 shot groups.
 
Top