snowcamoman
WKR
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2014
- Messages
- 1,001
Continuation from part 1.
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/show...e-Glacier-amp-Kuiu-Part-1&p=210852#post210852
80 Pound Tests
First up again was the Kuiu Ultra 6000. I loaded the second 40 pound bag of salt into the pack the tried to get them to both lay and overlap so that it was a nice, uniform load from top to bottom. Again, I compressed and strapped the load down and stood the pack up. The same bulge in the lower portion of the Ultra presented itself and there is simply no compression strap to keep it from doing that. I guess there might be a way to rig another strap onto the frame, but I did not have one handy for making a connection, although it can be done.
Kuiu Ultra 6000 with 80 pounds inside
I loaded the pack onto my back and took off for the testing hike. Within the first 50 yards it was clear to me that there was an extreme amount of pressure on my lower lumbar area of my back. After another 100 yards and some hill climbing, the pain was to the point where I was ready to take it back to the house and get it off my back. I stopped for a little bit and tried some adjustments to the belt and harness, but that didn’t resolve the problem. After another 10 minutes of side hilling and maneuvering around, my lumbar was sore and ready for a break. I headed back to the barn to take a break and load up the second pack.
I took my time loading the Stone Glacier with the two, 40 pound bags of salt. The load was strapped down and stayed rock solid when I stood the pack up.
Stone Glacier Terminus with 80 pounds inside
I put the pack on and got everything tightened down and the load lifters adjusted so that there was minimal pressure on the shoulders or chest area. I took off for the hike terrain testing and the pack rode nicely. I did not notice any hot spots anywhere or chaffing areas when going through a series of inclines and declines. I did notice that my lower back was a little stiff feeling, but that may have been from the prior testing issues. All in all the Stone Glacier did an excellent job and was good at hauling the 80 pounds.
The Kifaru was loaded up same as the other packs. Strapping/compressing the bags of salt took longer than both of the other two packs, simply because there are more straps to cinch down and also because I kept tracing the straps back to their anchor points to make certain I was anchoring the correct one’s in the right places. The options and variety of ways that you can compress with the standard and extra K connector straps on the Kifaru can be mind boggling. Add to that, that the pack and straps are all camo colored and it can almost seem confusing. So I got the 80 pounds in the HighCamp and stood it up. Everything was rock solid inside and no sign of any bulging or sagging within the bag. Another item that the Kifaru doesn’t have that the Ultra and Stone Glacier have is a handle. While not a critical item, it can be useful to grab and lift for loading. Either way, I just grabbed the shoulder straps and got it onto my knee and just turned my body into the harness and other shoulder strap. I cinched up the waist belt and adjusted the shoulder tension and load lifters for a nice fit. Right away at this weight it becomes clear that for my body, the wide contoured belt and plush lumbar pad on the Kifaru are just “right”. I go through the paces in the yard and neighborhood and am pleasantly happy with the comfort of the Kifaru system. The downside to the lighter, Kifaru Bikini frame with a load such as this is that the inner space between the two vertical stays in the frame can force the bag to push in towards your back. Here’s a photo showing what I’m talking about, looking down along the frame.
Load pushing between vertical stays.
This is my temporary fix for the load pushing through. I'll fine tune this and lighten it down the road, but it works and is solid.
80 Pound Results
Kuiu Ultra is not comfortable on my body and I would not be able to hike a load of this weight very far.
The Stone Glacier did a good job of hauling the load and there was not any real discomfort so to speak of. A little bit more lumbar would bump up the comfort a couple notches. I have an email in with Stone Glacier asking about their other harness.
The Kifaru hauls 80 pounds like a champion, although strapping it down takes a little longer than the Stone Glacier. The bulge between vertical frame members will need to be addressed for meat hauling, which should be fairly easy to do as stated above.
100 Pound Tests
The same loading process was used with the two, 40 pound salt bags into the Kuiu Ultra and then two, 10 pound Olympic plates were added in the top of the pack. I put the pack on and I just knew right away that I was not going to hike this load with any comfort. The amount of pressure on my lower lumbar with this weight was even more severe and I was not willing to put myself through testing it like this . I studied the Ultra and tried to determine if there was a “fix” for this extreme pressure I was experiencing. I did not come up with a solution on the first day of testing, but think I understand why the pack was doing this to me. If you look at the shape of the Ultra’s frame:
it goes to a narrow (4 to 5”) wide point at the bottom. This point is tucked up into a pocket that has a sheet of plastic that the waist belt connects to. It looks like all of the weight of the pack causes a pressure point to form in that lower carbon portion and just transfers it through the lumbar pad onto my back. I tested out a ¼” thick piece of plastic in front of the Kuiu frame (between hip belt and frame):
This helped distribute the load, but was still not close to the comfort level I could travel any real distance with.
I loaded up the Stone Glacier in the same fashion as the Ultra with 100 pounds and the results were almost identical to the 80 pound weight testing. I think that the newer, 3 Piece Stone Glacier belt might fit or work out a little better for my lower back comfort, but have not tested it with this weight. There is also an additional lumbar pad option for the single belt which might also help make the Stone Glacier ride just a little more comfortable on me.
The Kifaru was loaded up to 100 pounds and put through the paces. Identical results (other than my legs were getting tired) were experienced. Very comfortable and there isn’t anything I can think of changing on this hip belt and frame, other than the filler material in the photo above.
Again, the Highcamp bag takes a couple extra straps to really anchor it down, but that isn’t a problem with the amount of anchor options on the frame and Highcamp bag. You can get pretty creative with the Kifaru for anchoring and add-ons.
Conclusions
How a backpack fits a person is similar to how boots fit a person. What fits person X perfectly, could be a real nightmare pain for another. I’m 5’10” tall, weigh 160 pounds and have a pretty muscular build. The features of a pack however (straps, storage, fabrics…etc) is a variable that cannot really be argued too awful much. Either a pack is able to hold and compress a load or it isn’t. There are either options on a pack for anchor points, pockets, etc…or they're not available. I’ve tried to convey my findings and give each pack a thorough review, pointing out as many features (or lack of) as possible.
I’m decent mechanically and good at fixing or modifying about any piece of gear to get exactly what I want. If you’re not good at this or afraid of ruining your gear, I would suggest you go with a Stone Glacier pack or a Kifaru Duplex frame and bag of your choice for big loads. I’d also recommend that if you don’t plan to haul heavy loads, the Kuiu Ultra be given a serious look. The Kuiu is definitely the cheapest priced of the three packs and if you know you are not going to be using the pack an awful lot or are on a budget, this might be a good option. I’m not saying that the Kuiu cannot haul a heavy load for others, it just simply wouldn’t do it for me, even with some slight modification/additions and gear loading placement techniques.
I’m open to suggestions or input on how I can try to make the Kuiu ride comfortably with the heavy loads. For the guys out there stating that they’ve tested the packs with 100 plus pound loads, how or what are you doing differently than I’m doing? The quality of the pack and frame on the Kuiu look excellent. The very light weight of this pack would be superb for day hikes or lighter multi-day hunters. If I was flying into remote airstrips and not hiking far into valleys for sheep and needed to do a lot of fairly technical climbing, the Ultra would be seriously looked at. I would still have to make multiple trips out with this pack though, which is a strategy many guys use.
The Stone Glacier Terminus and Krux frame is a very clean and effective pack that hauls a load very nicely. I REALLY like how clean and streamlined this pack looks and how it hugs onto my back when packing. The newer Stone Glacier packs are even more streamlined and if I was in the market for another pack would surely be looking at the Sky 7400 with a 3 piece belt and power pulls added. The ability to stuff everything into the Stone Glacier and compress it down quickly is very nice and well thought out. Like I mentioned above, I have some questions in with Stone Glacier and if the 3 piece belt gets the comfort level up a couple notches for me, I very well could have one heading my way.
For sheer hauling comfort in a pretty light pack and frame, the Kifaru is on the top of my list right now. There is something to be said about that massive hip belt and amount of adjustments that can be made on the Kifaru system. With the additional modifications and straps added to the HighCamp, it quickly competes with the Stone Glacier’s compression system, it just doesn’t have as streamlined look to it when completed. If I had my druthers, a Stone Glacier bag and compression system on a Kifaru frame/hip belt would be the best for me.
All three of these packs can be extended away from the frames in order to pack meat between the bag and frame. I did not test out these features, as I had a limited amount of time and was not particularly interested in that feature.
If there is something I completely missed in this testing, please let me know. As stated above, these tests did not involve hiking super long distances, but merely quick preliminary tests to tell me how the packs performed with different weights in them over a few days. Durability is proven over time, so obviously I could not make too many comments on that item, except to point out the fabric types used in the packs.
http://www.rokslide.com/forums/show...e-Glacier-amp-Kuiu-Part-1&p=210852#post210852
80 Pound Tests
First up again was the Kuiu Ultra 6000. I loaded the second 40 pound bag of salt into the pack the tried to get them to both lay and overlap so that it was a nice, uniform load from top to bottom. Again, I compressed and strapped the load down and stood the pack up. The same bulge in the lower portion of the Ultra presented itself and there is simply no compression strap to keep it from doing that. I guess there might be a way to rig another strap onto the frame, but I did not have one handy for making a connection, although it can be done.
Kuiu Ultra 6000 with 80 pounds inside
I loaded the pack onto my back and took off for the testing hike. Within the first 50 yards it was clear to me that there was an extreme amount of pressure on my lower lumbar area of my back. After another 100 yards and some hill climbing, the pain was to the point where I was ready to take it back to the house and get it off my back. I stopped for a little bit and tried some adjustments to the belt and harness, but that didn’t resolve the problem. After another 10 minutes of side hilling and maneuvering around, my lumbar was sore and ready for a break. I headed back to the barn to take a break and load up the second pack.
I took my time loading the Stone Glacier with the two, 40 pound bags of salt. The load was strapped down and stayed rock solid when I stood the pack up.
Stone Glacier Terminus with 80 pounds inside
I put the pack on and got everything tightened down and the load lifters adjusted so that there was minimal pressure on the shoulders or chest area. I took off for the hike terrain testing and the pack rode nicely. I did not notice any hot spots anywhere or chaffing areas when going through a series of inclines and declines. I did notice that my lower back was a little stiff feeling, but that may have been from the prior testing issues. All in all the Stone Glacier did an excellent job and was good at hauling the 80 pounds.
The Kifaru was loaded up same as the other packs. Strapping/compressing the bags of salt took longer than both of the other two packs, simply because there are more straps to cinch down and also because I kept tracing the straps back to their anchor points to make certain I was anchoring the correct one’s in the right places. The options and variety of ways that you can compress with the standard and extra K connector straps on the Kifaru can be mind boggling. Add to that, that the pack and straps are all camo colored and it can almost seem confusing. So I got the 80 pounds in the HighCamp and stood it up. Everything was rock solid inside and no sign of any bulging or sagging within the bag. Another item that the Kifaru doesn’t have that the Ultra and Stone Glacier have is a handle. While not a critical item, it can be useful to grab and lift for loading. Either way, I just grabbed the shoulder straps and got it onto my knee and just turned my body into the harness and other shoulder strap. I cinched up the waist belt and adjusted the shoulder tension and load lifters for a nice fit. Right away at this weight it becomes clear that for my body, the wide contoured belt and plush lumbar pad on the Kifaru are just “right”. I go through the paces in the yard and neighborhood and am pleasantly happy with the comfort of the Kifaru system. The downside to the lighter, Kifaru Bikini frame with a load such as this is that the inner space between the two vertical stays in the frame can force the bag to push in towards your back. Here’s a photo showing what I’m talking about, looking down along the frame.
Load pushing between vertical stays.
This is my temporary fix for the load pushing through. I'll fine tune this and lighten it down the road, but it works and is solid.
80 Pound Results
Kuiu Ultra is not comfortable on my body and I would not be able to hike a load of this weight very far.
The Stone Glacier did a good job of hauling the load and there was not any real discomfort so to speak of. A little bit more lumbar would bump up the comfort a couple notches. I have an email in with Stone Glacier asking about their other harness.
The Kifaru hauls 80 pounds like a champion, although strapping it down takes a little longer than the Stone Glacier. The bulge between vertical frame members will need to be addressed for meat hauling, which should be fairly easy to do as stated above.
100 Pound Tests
The same loading process was used with the two, 40 pound salt bags into the Kuiu Ultra and then two, 10 pound Olympic plates were added in the top of the pack. I put the pack on and I just knew right away that I was not going to hike this load with any comfort. The amount of pressure on my lower lumbar with this weight was even more severe and I was not willing to put myself through testing it like this . I studied the Ultra and tried to determine if there was a “fix” for this extreme pressure I was experiencing. I did not come up with a solution on the first day of testing, but think I understand why the pack was doing this to me. If you look at the shape of the Ultra’s frame:
it goes to a narrow (4 to 5”) wide point at the bottom. This point is tucked up into a pocket that has a sheet of plastic that the waist belt connects to. It looks like all of the weight of the pack causes a pressure point to form in that lower carbon portion and just transfers it through the lumbar pad onto my back. I tested out a ¼” thick piece of plastic in front of the Kuiu frame (between hip belt and frame):
This helped distribute the load, but was still not close to the comfort level I could travel any real distance with.
I loaded up the Stone Glacier in the same fashion as the Ultra with 100 pounds and the results were almost identical to the 80 pound weight testing. I think that the newer, 3 Piece Stone Glacier belt might fit or work out a little better for my lower back comfort, but have not tested it with this weight. There is also an additional lumbar pad option for the single belt which might also help make the Stone Glacier ride just a little more comfortable on me.
The Kifaru was loaded up to 100 pounds and put through the paces. Identical results (other than my legs were getting tired) were experienced. Very comfortable and there isn’t anything I can think of changing on this hip belt and frame, other than the filler material in the photo above.
Again, the Highcamp bag takes a couple extra straps to really anchor it down, but that isn’t a problem with the amount of anchor options on the frame and Highcamp bag. You can get pretty creative with the Kifaru for anchoring and add-ons.
Conclusions
How a backpack fits a person is similar to how boots fit a person. What fits person X perfectly, could be a real nightmare pain for another. I’m 5’10” tall, weigh 160 pounds and have a pretty muscular build. The features of a pack however (straps, storage, fabrics…etc) is a variable that cannot really be argued too awful much. Either a pack is able to hold and compress a load or it isn’t. There are either options on a pack for anchor points, pockets, etc…or they're not available. I’ve tried to convey my findings and give each pack a thorough review, pointing out as many features (or lack of) as possible.
I’m decent mechanically and good at fixing or modifying about any piece of gear to get exactly what I want. If you’re not good at this or afraid of ruining your gear, I would suggest you go with a Stone Glacier pack or a Kifaru Duplex frame and bag of your choice for big loads. I’d also recommend that if you don’t plan to haul heavy loads, the Kuiu Ultra be given a serious look. The Kuiu is definitely the cheapest priced of the three packs and if you know you are not going to be using the pack an awful lot or are on a budget, this might be a good option. I’m not saying that the Kuiu cannot haul a heavy load for others, it just simply wouldn’t do it for me, even with some slight modification/additions and gear loading placement techniques.
I’m open to suggestions or input on how I can try to make the Kuiu ride comfortably with the heavy loads. For the guys out there stating that they’ve tested the packs with 100 plus pound loads, how or what are you doing differently than I’m doing? The quality of the pack and frame on the Kuiu look excellent. The very light weight of this pack would be superb for day hikes or lighter multi-day hunters. If I was flying into remote airstrips and not hiking far into valleys for sheep and needed to do a lot of fairly technical climbing, the Ultra would be seriously looked at. I would still have to make multiple trips out with this pack though, which is a strategy many guys use.
The Stone Glacier Terminus and Krux frame is a very clean and effective pack that hauls a load very nicely. I REALLY like how clean and streamlined this pack looks and how it hugs onto my back when packing. The newer Stone Glacier packs are even more streamlined and if I was in the market for another pack would surely be looking at the Sky 7400 with a 3 piece belt and power pulls added. The ability to stuff everything into the Stone Glacier and compress it down quickly is very nice and well thought out. Like I mentioned above, I have some questions in with Stone Glacier and if the 3 piece belt gets the comfort level up a couple notches for me, I very well could have one heading my way.
For sheer hauling comfort in a pretty light pack and frame, the Kifaru is on the top of my list right now. There is something to be said about that massive hip belt and amount of adjustments that can be made on the Kifaru system. With the additional modifications and straps added to the HighCamp, it quickly competes with the Stone Glacier’s compression system, it just doesn’t have as streamlined look to it when completed. If I had my druthers, a Stone Glacier bag and compression system on a Kifaru frame/hip belt would be the best for me.
All three of these packs can be extended away from the frames in order to pack meat between the bag and frame. I did not test out these features, as I had a limited amount of time and was not particularly interested in that feature.
If there is something I completely missed in this testing, please let me know. As stated above, these tests did not involve hiking super long distances, but merely quick preliminary tests to tell me how the packs performed with different weights in them over a few days. Durability is proven over time, so obviously I could not make too many comments on that item, except to point out the fabric types used in the packs.
